Ok,

I'm sure this topic will get some people a little spooled up, but I've been putting in a lot of research and engineering time into this, and wanted to get some more informed opinions.

I'm looking at installing a flex-fuel kit in my Landy. They are basically a software hack between the ECU and the injectors, and alter timing and fuel delivery.

This would be done to get the engine to burn E-85 fuel without throwing codes or going ape****.

I've got a few reasons for doing it, not really cost related. I messed around for 3 years or so with the veggie-oil/diesel stuff, and got it dialed in pretty well. My world has changed a lot since then, and I no longer have time to run a oil-distilling operation.

So here I what I need some input on.

1) hydroscopic tendencies of ETOH - I know this stuff absorbs water, however I live in one of the driest climates in the US, so that might be a lesser issue. Is anyone out there running any kind of supplemental fuel filtration with water-block? If so, what kind?

2) One thing I am hearing a lot, but haven't seen direct evidence of, is the "corrosive" nature of ETOH or methanol-based fuels. Specifically, WHAT they corrode. Seals? Hose internals? Piston rings? I know some of my hot-rod buddies swear by ethanol and methanol based fuels for their power, and haven't had any issues with corrosion.

3) Does anyone know what type of connector our injectors use? Are they Denso or Bosch? Anyone have a pic?

4) The software programs for Flex-fuel, etc are typically advancing timing by 0.5-1.5 degrees, depending on the engine, I believe due to the "octane" rating of E-85. (Octane is technically impossible to calc on ethanol). Do I need to upgrade plugs for this? Last rover I had ran like crap on the bosch +4's, but ran like silk on the cheap-o champion copper ones.

best,

- ATLDisco

 

Hi, interesting project. In motorsport we used EPROM many years ago to achieve similar goals, i.e. infinite fuel/air/advance-retard ratios through a custom ECU.

Some years ago I ran a methanol Ford BDA 1600 race engine but methanol has to be flushed out as if left standing as it is highly corrosive in engines and fuel systems, and, it is hygroscopic similarly to brake fluids but worse. Methanol attacks non ferrous metals alarmingly particularly magnesium and creates rust inside engines due to it's hygroscobic nature.

I cannot answer your specifics on fuel injectors as I used modified Ford injectors delivering via custom roller throttle bodies.

For years I ran NGK Iridium spark plugs, softer for starting and hard for running as the engine comp ratio was 12:1 with rpm peaking at 11K rev limited.

Unfortunately my BDA finally 'lunched' itself big time as it was an old engine concept and well over tuned.

 

methanol is apparently a different beast. I don't have access to much methanol fuel here where I live, apart from race-grade, which is about $6.50/gallon...

The E-85 blend found in the states is usually 70%-90% methanol, with the rest being gasoline, and varies some in quality.

Its pretty readily available where I live, and even more so in the midwestern united states, being derived mostly from corn or cellulose.

Anyhow, I'm going to keep digging, and make a mock-up fuel system as a backup to see what the cost would be if something did foul up.

Anyone else out there have anything to add? Trying to make a call here in the next few weeks.

- ATLDisco

 

To much brain power in this tread for me!

 

Like the 02 S4 Monster, I had one before I wimped for my present Honda sports bike. The S4 was manic and around town was a real headturner back then.

 

Yep the S4 is a fun bike. Mine has full laser GP exhaust, so you definitely know I'm in the neighborhood...that, and the duc clutch that sounds like a machine gun.

 

ATL,

I am not a scientist but I did some reading about ethanol not long ago after I found an ethanol station in McKinney, TX. My Titan is a flex fuel vehicle and I can tell you it ran like a scalded dog on straight ethanol! It also got horrible mileage.

I can snap a picture of the spare fuel injector if that helps. I can also snap a picture of the injector connector from a spare wiring harness.

I ready that ethanol eats rubber and plastic... and it does (which is why ethanol free gas is recommended for weedeaters), a flex fuel vehicles have metal substituted for rubber in the fuel delivery system. Ethanol is higher octane equivalent, and burns both faster and hotter. That's really all I remember.

I'll get a picture of the connector.

I hate it when people don't address the OP's query and suggest alternatives. I did address your query... and I wish we could legally put on a propane conversion kit here!!!! Haha.

 

Charlie, not sure about yours, by my Titan always gets horrible mileage!!!! But, 180k hard miles pulling and hauling more than it ever should, without any problems, then it can drink all it wants!

 

It certainly couldn't be cost related, unless your goal is to spend more. There isn't anywhere in the US that running pure diesel would cost more than petrol or E85.

As for your specific questions:
1. I always run them in diesels. Whether it's really needed or not, I've no idea, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. Racor makes nice fuel/water separators.

2. It is more corrosive, but I think vehicles for quite a number of years have been ok with at least some alcohol in the fuel. It's mostly the rubber parts that suffer. Typically the bigger issue is varnish on the internals from years of petrol use is cleaned off and clogs everything. A good filter like the Racor might mitigate that.

3. Don't know on the DII. If they are the same as the D1 they are Bosch (actually made by AMP)


4. Dunno, could probably experiment and see.

 

167,000 on mine and pulls like a mule. When I said it got terrible mileage on ethanol, I meant it was getting as bad as my Disco usually does on premium.