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Take the time to read through some of the links as you make your way down to the list of lessons.
Enjoy.
Sadly Paul, the philosophies are coming true and the cracks appearing in humanity generally. Armageddon is around every corner and it appears nothing can arrest or stop the demise of humanity. We seem to now be on a collision course, ironically called populism, with Brexit in the UK and Headmistress, Theresa May, and the US President, Donald Trump, and his ill conceived Tweets followed by edicts it appears an international crisis may soon be looming.
I will re-read the piece as there is much to take onboard in it and on initially reading it does summarise the parlous situation at present and worsening.
There appears much political unrest in the US and Europe which gives credence to similar **** situations as in the 1930's and 1940's, I hope not though.
I will say this about our 45th President, he likes to talk about the majority of Americans being behind him. He has gone so far as to claim his Electoral win was a landslide.
"We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College," Trump told Chris Wallace on the Dec. 11 edition of Fox News Sunday."
Here's the thing, if you look back at all of the previous elections and how things turned out in terms of winning a majority of the popular vote, plurality of the popular vote, majority of the Electoral College, I come across only one election that was kinda, sorta, like this one and the outcome of that election was not good. There was one election where there were four candidates running for President. The two major parties were in disarray and there were modest challenges from the two other candidates. In the end, when voting had been tallied, the candidate for the Republican Party was able to win the majority of the Electoral College and was elected the President of the US. However, his popular vote total was abysmal. It was one of the lowest if not the lowest total of any President, down around 39% of the vote.
Think about that. Republicans were outraged when Clinton won in 1992 with around 43% of the popular vote but plenty of votes in the Electoral College. Many on the right contented that his election wasn't legitimate. Many, at the time, while hating Perot, also called for the dismantling of the Electoral College. Even when he ran in 1996 he still failed to win the majority of the vote but scored an even bigger victory with the Electoral College. But I digress.
Back to the poor President with just 39% of the vote. Care to venture a guess as to who it was? Good old Honest Abe. Our 16th President. He won the Electoral College with a handy majority but got no where near the majority in the popular vote. Ahem, we all know, all too well, how that Presidency turned out.
My point, is that whenever I hear some arrogant sore winner tell someone who didn't vote for Trump to "get over it" I just think of how the South responded to the notion of "getting over it" with Lincoln. Now, don't get me wrong. Not for an instant am I advocating for anything like what happened in 1861. I'm just using a pretty good example of someone who won an election with a ridiculously low popular vote and how opponents reacted. Perhaps, the sour winners in the Trump camp should STFU and be thankful cannon fusillades haven't come raining down on some little bumf*&k flyover town.
YOU ARE NOT THE MAJORITY. You benefited from an arcane form of election unique to ONE and ONLY ONE political office anywhere in the entire USA. A form of election created during the Constitutional Convention to ensure that the lower populated (and correspondingly lower represented) Southern States would see fit to join the Union. The 3/5 Clause counted slaves in the South as 3/5ths of a voting white man so that the lower populated Southern States would have greater sway in national politics. It worked because eight of the first nine Presidential elections were won by a Virginian!
On another note. You want to talk voter fraud? How many people here have even bothered to look up, let alone read and follow critiques of the two primary studies that were supposed to have uncovered voter fraud to the tune of over 5 million votes. You know, the kind of BS Trump has been rattling around about. One of his sources are a study performed by Old Dominion University. The study looked at 2008 and 2010 elections. I am not going to go into particulars but I will say that the work of Richmond and Earnest has been thoroughly questioned and the quality of the study has been at issue. A peer reviewed study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...61379415001420) took the two to task over cherry picking data and over extrapolating from a seriously small sample.
The other study, conducted by the Pew Center on the States, when closely reviewed, comes nowhere near the claims of voter fraud that Trump is clinging to. Trump has even accused the author of groveling under pressure and not standing by his study. WTF?????
We are through the looking glass, Alice. We have alternate facts, fake news has become the rallying cry of anyone to lazy to bother doing due diligence to find out the facts.
The scariest thing about all of it is that we have no sense of history anymore. We've become unmoored with no ability to judge, adequately, what is going on now be cause it seems we've learned nothing from our past.
Last edited by Paul Grant; 01-30-2017 at 06:14 PM.
You may not, but I already have. The parallels have been already been drawn.
Originally Posted by Paul Grant
The scariest thing about all of it is that we have no sense of history anymore. We've become unmoored with no ability to judge, adequately, what is going on now be cause it seems we've learned nothing from our past.
A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots.
Never has that statement rung so true. I find it strange that in the information age we live in, where most of us (smart phones, tablets, etc) have a wealth of information at our literal fingertips, that people can be so adverse to doing due diligence and that goes with whichever party you support.
I have no political affiliations, I support neither party, lets make that clear right now.
I will say this about our 45th President, he likes to talk about the majority of Americans being behind him. He has gone so far as to claim his Electoral win was a landslide.
"We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College," Trump told Chris Wallace on the Dec. 11 edition of Fox News Sunday."
Here's the thing, if you look back at all of the previous elections and how things turned out in terms of winning a majority of the popular vote, plurality of the popular vote, majority of the Electoral College, I come across only one election that was kinda, sorta, like this one and the outcome of that election was not good. There was one election where there were four candidates running for President. The two major parties were in disarray and there were modest challenges from the two other candidates. In the end, when voting had been tallied, the candidate for the Republican Party was able to win the majority of the Electoral College and was elected the President of the US. However, his popular vote total was abysmal. It was one of the lowest if not the lowest total of any President, down around 39% of the vote.
Think about that. Republicans were outraged when Clinton won in 1992 with around 43% of the popular vote but plenty of votes in the Electoral College. Many on the right contented that his election wasn't legitimate. Many, at the time, while hating Perot, also called for the dismantling of the Electoral College. Even when he ran in 1996 he still failed to win the majority of the vote but scored an even bigger victory with the Electoral College. But I digress.
Back to the poor President with just 39% of the vote. Care to venture a guess as to who it was? Good old Honest Abe. Our 16th President. He won the Electoral College with a handy majority but got no where near the majority in the popular vote. Ahem, we all know, all too well, how that Presidency turned out.
My point, is that whenever I hear some arrogant sore winner tell someone who didn't vote for Trump to "get over it" I just think of how the South responded to the notion of "getting over it" with Lincoln. Now, don't get me wrong. Not for an instant am I advocating for anything like what happened in 1861. I'm just using a pretty good example of someone who won an election with a ridiculously low popular vote and how opponents reacted. Perhaps, the sour winners in the Trump camp should STFU and be thankful cannon fusillades haven't come raining down on some little bumf*&k flyover town.
YOU ARE NOT THE MAJORITY. You benefited from an arcane form of election unique to ONE and ONLY ONE political office anywhere in the entire USA. A form of election created during the Constitutional Convention to ensure that the lower populated (and correspondingly lower represented) Southern States would see fit to join the Union. The 3/5 Clause counted slaves in the South as 3/5ths of a voting white man so that the lower populated Southern States would have greater sway in national politics. It worked because eight of the first nine Presidential elections were won by a Virginian!
On another note. You want to talk voter fraud? How many people here have even bothered to look up, let alone read and follow critiques of the two primary studies that were supposed to have uncovered voter fraud to the tune of over 5 million votes. You know, the kind of BS Trump has been rattling around about. One of his sources are a study performed by Old Dominion University. The study looked at 2008 and 2010 elections. I am not going to go into particulars but I will say that the work of Richmond and Earnest has been thoroughly questioned and the quality of the study has been at issue. A peer reviewed study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...61379415001420) took the two to task over cherry picking data and over extrapolating from a seriously small sample.
The other study, conducted by the Pew Center on the States, when closely reviewed, comes nowhere near the claims of voter fraud that Trump is clinging to. Trump has even accused the author of groveling under pressure and not standing by his study. WTF?????
We are through the looking glass, Alice. We have alternate facts, fake news has become the rallying cry of anyone to lazy to bother doing due diligence to find out the facts.
The scariest thing about all of it is that we have no sense of history anymore. We've become unmoored with no ability to judge, adequately, what is going on now be cause it seems we've learned nothing from our past.
Hey Paul, do I deduce a slight tone of dislike for Trump
It was said on a programme (can't remember which) that Trump has serious psychological and/or mental illness problems, I'm not saying he has, BUT, do I smell an impeachment reason arising!!!
The bookmakers are giving 2:1 that he won't make full term, hmmm, it all starts to hang together eh.
Take a look at the 25th Amendment to the US Constitution.
AMENDMENT XXV
SECTION 1
In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.
SECTION 2
Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
SECTION 3
Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.
SECTION 4
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
READ AND REREAD SECTION 4!!!!!!
It wouldn't take much in the way of collusion between Pence, Ryan and McConnell to get Trump out of the way. I don't think many people in the US are aware of how easy it would be for a coup d'etat to take place. Now, I'm not claiming that is what is going to happen but after the 2016 election, who can tell?
I just wish we had a populace less involved with Beyonce's twins and more involved in how our government works.
Thankfully Paul, you have spotted the obvious potential for political collusion (I doubt if many have). IMO I believe Trump is skating on thin ice but it really depends how the US voting populace view him and his actions. You made a statement which I can wholeheartedly support "I just wish we had a populace less involved with Beyonce's twins and more involved in how our government works.", so true, as I wish the UK populace were less intrigued by T May's leather trousers and her zany shoes and had concentrated on the real matters like "where the hell do they honestly believe she and the clown Boris will replace 46% (I heard 49%) of the UK exports within 2 years."
It seems hard to believe but some ignorant UK people honestly believed any foreigners would be 'deported' on the 24th July 2016 the day after after they deigned to vote for Brexit
I am often amazed how dense many of the population really are and particularly when it comes to politics, they'd prefer to watch soccer on TV whilst swilling down umpteen cans of strong beer and shouting obscenities at the match on TV.
Last edited by OffroadFrance; 02-03-2017 at 05:42 PM.
It seems evident the world may be on the same slippery slope to the abyss. It seems the vast majority in western europe and the US are expecting Nirvana for little or no effort and believing their governments can pull this white rabbit out of the hat.
It's sadly disappointing that the world has been here before, deja vu, back to the power and money thingy again, they'll never learn until it's all too late, rivers of blood.
Offroad, I brought this thread up from the past because the author of that list I provided at the top, Timothy Snyder, was a guest on a podcast I listen to regularly.
I don't know if you are familiar with Sam Harris, he's a neuroscientist and a good pal of Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krause and Christopher Hitchens before he died. He has a regular podcast "Waking Up" available through the iTunes store as well as his own website (samharris.org). He spoke for about 90 minutes with Snyder at the end of last month. Now, the more I've read about Snyder, the less I feel he is at the cutting edge in applying historical lessons to modern events but, nonetheless, there is plenty to think about within this podcast. If you have a chance, give it a listen.
01-21-2017, 09:14 AM
Off Road France, here's a good read for you.
