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97 Discovery Overheating after Engine Replacement

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  #11  
Old 12-01-2011, 02:07 AM
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check fan has been fitted the right way around, had this years ago on a range rover, motor had been re built, over heated, but heater could just hold it, fan blades had been removed from the viscous coupling and replaced backwards, they still moved air but not as much, make sure the curve of the blade is facing to the motor , or concave to mtor, convex to radiator.

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  #12  
Old 12-01-2011, 04:59 AM
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As mentioned, but I forgot to add the old school test - hold a wimpy plastic bag to the grille. If fan is backwards, from belt route or mounting reversed, bag will blow away from truck. We want air flow toward the engine block. Fan blowing wrong subtracts air flow from radiator at roadway speed, so can make overheat underway, might seem normal at idle... Also, on D1 the two electric condenser cooling fans can be backward, and subtract at idle and low speeds, making overheat. same test with bag, just don't crank engine. Switch on AC and turn key to run, but don't crank. Electric fans should come on, and bag should get sucked toward truck.

Please follow up and let us know what you found.
 

Last edited by Savannah Buzz; 12-01-2011 at 05:02 AM.
  #13  
Old 12-01-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Savannah Buzz
Of course, could have cracked block, bad head gasket, etc.
Ha! Ever the optimist Savannah!
 
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Savannah Buzz
Alternator is an three phase AC geneator with diodes to convert to DC, it does not care direction, it will make DC. Belt route could be wrong, and decrease cooling flow, even though outside air blast is cooling things off. Top and bottom hoses should be different temps, but Mark I palm reader is not very accurate.

Of course, could have cracked block, bad head gasket, etc.
1) Is there a relatively simple way for me to determine if the belt route is wrong?

2) Are there any tests I could perform to rule out cracked block or head gasket? The car is not blowing white smoke, the heat works and the oil looks perfectly clean.
 
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Savannah Buzz
As mentioned, but I forgot to add the old school test - hold a wimpy plastic bag to the grille. If fan is backwards, from belt route or mounting reversed, bag will blow away from truck. We want air flow toward the engine block. Fan blowing wrong subtracts air flow from radiator at roadway speed, so can make overheat underway, might seem normal at idle... Also, on D1 the two electric condenser cooling fans can be backward, and subtract at idle and low speeds, making overheat. same test with bag, just don't crank engine. Switch on AC and turn key to run, but don't crank. Electric fans should come on, and bag should get sucked toward truck.

Please follow up and let us know what you found.
Just did the bag test. Both tests pulled the bag toward the engine, however... in the test of the condenser fans, it was barely noticeable.
 
  #16  
Old 12-01-2011, 12:07 PM
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So if you vacation in Vermont, someone gives you a Land Rover for FREE?
WOW!

Usually by the time someone is willing to give away a Land Rover they have reached a Point Of Know Return.

So you can be facing a whole lot of other than "normal" situations.

Good luck sorting it out. Or go ahead and do that Raffle.
 
  #17  
Old 12-01-2011, 12:39 PM
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Belt route in attachment below from RAVE tech manual. Simple to check.

Cupped side of fan blades toward engine block.

OK that electric fans were less power, they are designed just to provide a boost in hot weather to cool off the AC condenser. Bag test good.

No white smoke, no contaminated oil (would look milky), no coolant loss - all good signs.

There is a chemical test for combustion gas in coolant, about $50 for auto parts store, does like 16 tests. However, you are not at that point yet, IMHO. Unless ou hear a sound like rushing water, or water fall under the dash, that is gas or air bubbles in the coolant.

The system is cooling, but just on the edge of imbalanced. You are about to find that fans are blowing th right way, and water pump is pumping the right way (belt route). Fan clutch may be wimpy, but is not an issue at 50 - 60 mph. More air moved by road speed than fan speed.

You have a 1997 vehicle, that someone else decided to give away. Not that there is anything wrong with that, or they were trying to give you a problem. But they just didn't have much use for it. AND they may have let some of the service slide, due to inactivity.

When checking belt route, belt should be in good condition, not dry rotted, cracked, or loose. Loose means less power transfer, but is usually found along with belt squeals, etc.

You have had some coolant escape, and replaced. But you have not mentioned radiator flush. A chemical radiator flush can be done at home, there is no drain, you have to remove a hose clamp on the passenger side lower spout of the radiator. That hose is a multi-head "medussa" that by Murphy's Law, may split. Be careful. You can remove bottom and upper hose after running the coolant flush for at least as long as the instructions require. Then poke garden hose in lower opening, with rag, and force water at moderate (not full) pressure reverse direction out the top. This will remove a lot of scale. Watch color of what comes out. Most likely lots of sediment.

Also remove water hoses (2) on top of passenger side valve cover and flush out heater core, temp controls on max.

Once done, flush with a gallon or two of distilled water, then re-fill wth 50/50 mix of Peak or a green or yellow coolant, NOT Dexcool (which turns to orange sludge).

If this does not bring the road speed heating down to 9:00 or a little less, next step would be a commercial (indy if available) radiator shop, you can remove and carry in or they can. They take the copper/brass radiator and pressure test, then "boil" by circulating a heated acid fluid in it, which dissolves most of the calcium build up. Then they can un-solder a side tank, and use metal rods to push through each tube and crack out remaining calcium, solder it back together. In my area, where shops work on farm tractors and construction equipment, a baby radiator carried in is like $75. National chains, tell them it is a Rover, and price goes up.

You could also consider doing the water pump at that time, if more than 80K on truck. It takes about 1 - 2 hours, biggest issue is getting the fan off. Part is like $50 - $150 depending on source. But usually pumps run until failed, they wobble and leak. If pump impeller was broken off, truck would not run OK at idle. You can do pump with radiator in the truck, so it could wait until after radiator service.

I think that based on a vehicle that may have sat, and may have not have recent coolant service, and can idle without over heat, and no smoke or coolant loss - that you problem is either not enough air moving across radiator (mud / trash) or radiator with sediment. New radiator very expensive, much cheaper to have serviced.

Pix attached of radiator sediment / sludge build up, water pump (old is 174K, stop leak used (brown coating) wobble - eating metal), newish one is more like 20 - 30K miles. Note close up of impeller of old one with scale.
 
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Last edited by Savannah Buzz; 12-01-2011 at 12:46 PM.
  #18  
Old 12-01-2011, 09:58 PM
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Here is the belt routing.
Discover Defender Maintenance Tips, Accessories, Parts & More at Roverparts.com

But thats not your problem, your problem is a blocked radiator, it cannot provide enough cooling at speed which is when engine temps are highest.
If it was the fan clutch or the fan being on backwards it would overheat at idle or in city traffic.
The good news is that I am 95% certain that is your problem, have it tested by a radiator shop to confirm.
The bad news is the DI radiator costs more than your first born's college tuition.

http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/ESR3687K.cfm
 

Last edited by Spike555; 12-01-2011 at 10:03 PM.
  #19  
Old 12-02-2011, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Savannah Buzz
Belt route in attachment below from RAVE tech manual. Simple to check.

Cupped side of fan blades toward engine block.

OK that electric fans were less power, they are designed just to provide a boost in hot weather to cool off the AC condenser. Bag test good.

No white smoke, no contaminated oil (would look milky), no coolant loss - all good signs.

There is a chemical test for combustion gas in coolant, about $50 for auto parts store, does like 16 tests. However, you are not at that point yet, IMHO. Unless ou hear a sound like rushing water, or water fall under the dash, that is gas or air bubbles in the coolant.

The system is cooling, but just on the edge of imbalanced. You are about to find that fans are blowing th right way, and water pump is pumping the right way (belt route). Fan clutch may be wimpy, but is not an issue at 50 - 60 mph. More air moved by road speed than fan speed.

You have a 1997 vehicle, that someone else decided to give away. Not that there is anything wrong with that, or they were trying to give you a problem. But they just didn't have much use for it. AND they may have let some of the service slide, due to inactivity.

When checking belt route, belt should be in good condition, not dry rotted, cracked, or loose. Loose means less power transfer, but is usually found along with belt squeals, etc.

You have had some coolant escape, and replaced. But you have not mentioned radiator flush. A chemical radiator flush can be done at home, there is no drain, you have to remove a hose clamp on the passenger side lower spout of the radiator. That hose is a multi-head "medussa" that by Murphy's Law, may split. Be careful. You can remove bottom and upper hose after running the coolant flush for at least as long as the instructions require. Then poke garden hose in lower opening, with rag, and force water at moderate (not full) pressure reverse direction out the top. This will remove a lot of scale. Watch color of what comes out. Most likely lots of sediment.

Also remove water hoses (2) on top of passenger side valve cover and flush out heater core, temp controls on max.

Once done, flush with a gallon or two of distilled water, then re-fill wth 50/50 mix of Peak or a green or yellow coolant, NOT Dexcool (which turns to orange sludge).

If this does not bring the road speed heating down to 9:00 or a little less, next step would be a commercial (indy if available) radiator shop, you can remove and carry in or they can. They take the copper/brass radiator and pressure test, then "boil" by circulating a heated acid fluid in it, which dissolves most of the calcium build up. Then they can un-solder a side tank, and use metal rods to push through each tube and crack out remaining calcium, solder it back together. In my area, where shops work on farm tractors and construction equipment, a baby radiator carried in is like $75. National chains, tell them it is a Rover, and price goes up.

You could also consider doing the water pump at that time, if more than 80K on truck. It takes about 1 - 2 hours, biggest issue is getting the fan off. Part is like $50 - $150 depending on source. But usually pumps run until failed, they wobble and leak. If pump impeller was broken off, truck would not run OK at idle. You can do pump with radiator in the truck, so it could wait until after radiator service.

I think that based on a vehicle that may have sat, and may have not have recent coolant service, and can idle without over heat, and no smoke or coolant loss - that you problem is either not enough air moving across radiator (mud / trash) or radiator with sediment. New radiator very expensive, much cheaper to have serviced.

Pix attached of radiator sediment / sludge build up, water pump (old is 174K, stop leak used (brown coating) wobble - eating metal), newish one is more like 20 - 30K miles. Note close up of impeller of old one with scale.
First off, thanks you so much for all the help!

To clarify, the car was given to me as a GIFT by my uncle... so it wasn't a "well if you want it, take it" kind of situation.

Also, I happen to have access to a D1 radiator and water pump. The radiator is from the same Rover that the "new" engine in my current vehicle came from... so it is not new, but it is known to be working. The water pump is attached to the blown motor that came out of my current Rover... however the pump itself is only a year old.

I will bring my vehicle to a radiator shop immediately. Thanks again!
 
  #20  
Old 12-02-2011, 08:03 AM
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A D1 radiator is like $600 new, so hang on to that.

No discredit to uncle, it may have just sat without use. Many people consider maintenance to be based on miles of use. In many cases that is a good rule of thumb, but age is an issue for anything rubber (hoses), chemical (battery or radiator coolant), o-rings, etc. Another thing that happens to Rovers that sit for long periods is that vermin can nest in the intake or the fresh air vent that runs down to the heater fan under the dash, straw, sticks, hood insulation, etc.
 


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