Am I getting screwed?
 

Hi all. I'm new to the forum, so this is my 1st post.
I have an 04 disco that I've owned since 04. I didn't buy it new, it had 10K on it. It has 101k miles now. The oil pump went on it at 16K and I had a new motor put in under warranty.

Last summer I had a blip on the temp guage and took it to the dealer immediately. It was low on coolant, but held pressure and they couldn't find a leak. They refilled it and all was fine until last weekend.

I took a short trip, parked it in the garage, came back a half an hour later to a green puddle under the front end. Coolant was obviously very low. I checked the oil also and the dipstick was dry...****! It was a quart and a half low.

I've put maybe 450 miles on it since last summer because I was worried about the coolant issue, and didn't want to have to do the dreaded head gasket job which I've read so much about. Now it's a necessity if I want to keep the truck (which I do).

My question is this; the dealer wants $3200 to do what is necessary. I didn't get all the details of what they were going to do.

I took it to West End Rover and Jag, an indy shop here in the cleveland area and they recommend doing a hell of a lot more to it if I want to keep it, but are charging me a bunch less. Here's what they want to do for $2800:

Replace Head Gaskets
Replace Intake Gaskets
Replace Valve cover gaskets
REplace Crank Seal
Replace Front Cover
Replace Oil Pan Gaskets
Replace Thermostat
Replace Lifters
Replace Valve Seals
Machine Heads
Complete Engine Degrease and Clean
Oil Filter and 6 Quarts of oil
Coolant Drain and Fill
New Plugs and Wires
Replace a bad window switch
New Water pump

I definitely want to keep the truck.
Do I need to do all this, is it a good idea? I've been reading through a lot over the last few days trying to get more info. From what I've read, if I do everything, it should last another 70K or so miles (the gaskets and motor). Is this right?

Sorry for the book...and thanks in advance for advice.

The dealer is definitely not doing everything that the indy shop is doing for $3,200. That is probably just for the head gaskets. The indy's price of $2,800 seems high at first but it really isn't because good indy shops usually charge around $1,800 for just the head gaskets and machining the heads.

Sounds like pretty good deal for all of that work... I would ask to lower the price and then supply them with, headgasket kit, plugs&wires, thermostat, all fluids. waterpump. you can get all of these parts a wee bit cheaper than they will charge you plus you are then able to ensure you get the best parts not the easy for the shop to get and charge higher prices. my 2 cents.

Not sure shop would warranty job with outside parts, but that varies. However, is it confirmed HG or just folks wanting $$$ for preventative issues? A leaky water pump can make a puddle at the front of the engine. You did not mention overheating, white smoke from tail pipe, coolant in oil (milkshake looking), running rough, or a chemical test for exhaust gas in coolant. You can borrow/rent a pressure tester for coolant and pump it up yourself and look for coolant leak spot. If opening the front cover (front seal) you'll want to do the oil pump while in there. If just doing a water pump, about 2 hours of newbie time, and the pump.

It is good that you have that list of things they want to do. You should probably get a list from the other place so you can compare. Part of the reason I write this is because, when you replace the head gasket, you have to remove the rocker covers. Whenever you remove the rocker covers, you are supposed to discard the gaskets and replace them, some people may want to cut corners and not replace that gasket (it is a pretty thick rubber gasket), but it can cause problems later on.

The upper and lower intake manifolds also have to be replaced. That upper to lower intake gasket is made out of metal, but parts of it compress as the upper intake is mated to the lower intake, so that gasket has to be replaced also. I took one engine apart to find that there was no intake gasket at all. It seemed like they used a liquid gasket, but it didn't seal properly.

If you replace the thermostat, you pretty much have to replace the coolant. There is a way to pinch off the lines with hose pinchers and minimize coolant loss, but most of the time it's good to replace the fluid by the time you replace the thermostat anyway.

In order to access the bottom part of the engine, they have to drain the oil and drop the pan. If a place doesn't change the oil, that means they're putting your dirty oil back in (which I've never heard of anyone doing). New oil also means a new filter. If the pan is being replaced, the oil pan gasket should be replaced.

I personally wouldn't recommend replacing the lifters unless the pushrods are also going to be replaced. When the pushrods are taken out, they are supposed to be replaced in the same order they came out, so each lifter stays connected to the same pushrod.

You should also ask about the valve springs. Sometimes you take the rocker apart and find out that the springs don't have the height they are supposed to have so they have to be replaced. Ask how much it will cost if they find they need to replace the springs also. Also keep in mind that they should replace all of the springs, even if they only find one needs to be replaced. At the very least, the set for that cylinder should be replaced (there are two springs for each cylinder, one for the exhaust piston and one for the intake piston).

Replacing the plugs and wires are not absolutely necessary for the rest of this work, but it is a lot easier to do the wire set with the coils removed (they must be removed from the upper intake before the upper intake can be removed), and should be done if they've never been changed before.

The last thing I can think of is that I think you need 7 qts when the engine is taken apart and degreased, and 6qts is needed only when changing the oil, but don't hold me to that. If you have a 4.0, I think those are the numbers.

I charge $2600 for just the headjob on a truck like yours.

Have the indy shop do it and let them source the parts, that's part of their bread and butter and they deserve to earn the few extra dollars they will. you like getting paid all the perks to do your job, don't you? So do they.

Do not replace the lifters unless you are replacing the cam. Pushrods NEVER need to be replaced.

I have yet to see a Rover valve spring that needed to be replaced-they are so weak that they never fail unless something else major has happened.

Not replacing the wires is silly when you're doing this much work. Just don't use stock wires!

Six quarts will be plenty.

Damn, Im to cheap. Make sure the radiator gets some attention too:)

Yes it is definitely the head gasket leaking. I got up under the truck and he showed me where all the coolant was coming from. It was under the rear of the engine. Apparently these guys do at least 1 reseal job for discoveries every week.

There was a guy in there while I was waiting for one of their loaner discos to come back that didn't do the reseal because it was too expensive. He was handing over the title to his truck. He siezed the engine the day before and sold it to them. It was an 02.

They checked that, too. Luckily it was ok.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

If you want to save some money and also look at options, send me your number before you do any work on the truck.