Discovery failure
#21
@ Early Rover, Yes clearly a dumb decision without much thought. We never continued on after the car over-heated. Just left it to cool and called a tow truck. Learning lessons are sometimes a bitch, but this came with little to no warning. Were talking a matter of 10 minutes. Now 5 minutes may be enough but, hell it does not cross your mind at the time of it happening. What ya gonna do...
#22
Drive GF's car while you sort this out. I ran my 97 at idle for a couple of minutes with a swapped out radiator, like a fool under the hood looking for leaks. Came back to the dash and oil light was still on because oil cooler was 99% obstructed.
People put parts in these and keep on going. But this is one of those places where becoming a DIY mechanic is certainly an option.
Would not spend a lot on parts until you have a real good idea of what is needed from inspection.
People put parts in these and keep on going. But this is one of those places where becoming a DIY mechanic is certainly an option.
Would not spend a lot on parts until you have a real good idea of what is needed from inspection.
#23
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Buzz: "D2 has ridge that prevents dropping liners."
ihscouts: "used same slick liner since the 1962 Buick V8." "It's possible you dropped more than one liner." "The 03/04 are junk."
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The facts are: Some D2s, all those with 38A blocks, have a ridge at bottom base of blocks (because Rover changed block casting), for each liner cylinder to to sit on, that effectively prevents those liners from moving downward at all. However, in SOME cases, Rover did not fully butt the liners against those ridges, so on those blocks, the liners can, indeed, move downward about 1/8". Importantly All 4.0 L. blocks have thinner aluminum walls behind cylinder liners (sleeves), than the later 2003/2004 4.6 L blocks, proven by Rover, at factory, automatically sonar scanning all blocks; using only ones with thicker walls for the 4.6L. As a result, we see 80% of all 4.0 L. blocks, after experiencing only one or two serious overheating issues, cracking behind cylinder liners, contributing to liners becoming loose and moving up/down, or both, while we see only 15% of 4.6 L. blocks, after experiencing two, three or more serious overheating issues, cracking behind cylinder liners, contributing to liners becoming loose and moving, except for the ones with ridge at base of liners, with liners fully seated down on them not being able to move. However, the walls may still be cracked, with its related problems. Personally, I would take a 4.6 L. 2003/2004 any day, over any of the earlier 4.0 L. Now, tell me again, why you insist on thinking the 4.6 L. is junk---rumors never cease? Not in my experience---my experience is just the opposite.
ihscouts: "used same slick liner since the 1962 Buick V8." "It's possible you dropped more than one liner." "The 03/04 are junk."
___________________
The facts are: Some D2s, all those with 38A blocks, have a ridge at bottom base of blocks (because Rover changed block casting), for each liner cylinder to to sit on, that effectively prevents those liners from moving downward at all. However, in SOME cases, Rover did not fully butt the liners against those ridges, so on those blocks, the liners can, indeed, move downward about 1/8". Importantly All 4.0 L. blocks have thinner aluminum walls behind cylinder liners (sleeves), than the later 2003/2004 4.6 L blocks, proven by Rover, at factory, automatically sonar scanning all blocks; using only ones with thicker walls for the 4.6L. As a result, we see 80% of all 4.0 L. blocks, after experiencing only one or two serious overheating issues, cracking behind cylinder liners, contributing to liners becoming loose and moving up/down, or both, while we see only 15% of 4.6 L. blocks, after experiencing two, three or more serious overheating issues, cracking behind cylinder liners, contributing to liners becoming loose and moving, except for the ones with ridge at base of liners, with liners fully seated down on them not being able to move. However, the walls may still be cracked, with its related problems. Personally, I would take a 4.6 L. 2003/2004 any day, over any of the earlier 4.0 L. Now, tell me again, why you insist on thinking the 4.6 L. is junk---rumors never cease? Not in my experience---my experience is just the opposite.
Last edited by earlyrover; 09-16-2013 at 04:56 PM.
#24
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Bartlomiej: "this came with little to no warning." Yes, it did, the light came on; that is why the auto. makers put them there; not to ignore them. Even if a light has some sort of problem with it, we must not ignore the warning, and continue driving. We must stop running the engine, and address the issue, to learn if it is the light, or an engine issue, before we destroy the engine due to our choice of ignoring the light coming on. Bartlomiej: " it does not cross your mind at the time of it happening." It should, and, hopefully, it will next time, since you now have, hopefully, learned the hard way. No offense, just the hard cold facts, that hurt sometimes.
#25
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Buzz< Regarding ridge at base of liners: " But it can wear away and allow continued drop. ihScouts is correct that it is not a built in feature, more like an undocumented feature or glitch in the QC process.
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No, Buzz, I can't agree with you; I have never seen or heard of the ridges wearing away, as you say. What has happened, is that in some cases on the 38A blocks, Rover, when installing the liners in at room temp., with the blocks at elevated temperatures, though they butted the liners down on the ridges, found that after cooling down, the liners, due to heat changes, had moved upward slightly, as much as about 1/8", so they did have that much room to move, usually due to cracking of aluminum wall behind liners were to crack, due to engine overheating issues, that we now know has happened. However, some 38A blocks do have the cyl. liners butted flush against the ridge, so those, obviously, cannot move. But, Buzz, ridges are a built in feature, put there during the casting process, starting with the 38A blocks, by Rover, to address the issue of liners moving, which, by that time, they had figured out. Earlier blocks did not have the rides at base of each cylinder bore.
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No, Buzz, I can't agree with you; I have never seen or heard of the ridges wearing away, as you say. What has happened, is that in some cases on the 38A blocks, Rover, when installing the liners in at room temp., with the blocks at elevated temperatures, though they butted the liners down on the ridges, found that after cooling down, the liners, due to heat changes, had moved upward slightly, as much as about 1/8", so they did have that much room to move, usually due to cracking of aluminum wall behind liners were to crack, due to engine overheating issues, that we now know has happened. However, some 38A blocks do have the cyl. liners butted flush against the ridge, so those, obviously, cannot move. But, Buzz, ridges are a built in feature, put there during the casting process, starting with the 38A blocks, by Rover, to address the issue of liners moving, which, by that time, they had figured out. Earlier blocks did not have the rides at base of each cylinder bore.
#26
That's impressive. So how was the engine coolant temp before the engine shutoff?
I've seen before on the discovery where the engine gets sooo hot the oil becomes so thin the pressure drops low enough for the light to emit during idle, not so sure about when running though.
I've seen before on the discovery where the engine gets sooo hot the oil becomes so thin the pressure drops low enough for the light to emit during idle, not so sure about when running though.
#28
earlyrover, I'll side with you. We have so many ticking D2's, but not a lot of them with shattered liner pieces in the oil pan. But there is plenty of problems with the liners. Bartlomeiej may put all these parts in and find the liners have started slipping. With heads off he can do a "fingernail" inspection. But he could consider pinning the liners, we have had write ups on that.
The oem heat gauge is not going to show overheat until way too hot. It keeps pointing at 50% from about 130-240F. Now the red light pops on about 284F. Way too late.
Until the engine is opened up, and examined, perhaps even some measurements, you won't know. All of us a making a good, practical, and realistic potential list of problems. Depending on how lucky the OP is, it might something he can repair. Or it could be early Xmas for the mechanic.
Really old Rovers used to have an option for an oil pressure gauge. About $45 I think, but that was in the 1950's. The idiot light is pretty practical. I have oil "bar" gauge on my Mercedes, but I don't watch it nearly as much as I watch that coolant temp.
But the real point ihscouts is wrong on is the glue sniffing. I had "discovered" toulene came in gallon cans by then....
The oem heat gauge is not going to show overheat until way too hot. It keeps pointing at 50% from about 130-240F. Now the red light pops on about 284F. Way too late.
Until the engine is opened up, and examined, perhaps even some measurements, you won't know. All of us a making a good, practical, and realistic potential list of problems. Depending on how lucky the OP is, it might something he can repair. Or it could be early Xmas for the mechanic.
Really old Rovers used to have an option for an oil pressure gauge. About $45 I think, but that was in the 1950's. The idiot light is pretty practical. I have oil "bar" gauge on my Mercedes, but I don't watch it nearly as much as I watch that coolant temp.
But the real point ihscouts is wrong on is the glue sniffing. I had "discovered" toulene came in gallon cans by then....
#29
don't want to burst your bubble, but if the main and rod bearings went without or extremely low oil pressure for 10 minutes. That mean the camshaft bearings and rocker shafts, and lifter also has little or no oil pressure. half your noise is most likely cause from collapsed lifters.
it is possible to take the rotating assembly out of a junk 4.6 and replace it but you will probably still have top end noise.
it is possible to take the rotating assembly out of a junk 4.6 and replace it but you will probably still have top end noise.
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