Thanks for the update as it is very informative, interesting comment about function of their sleeve/o-ring and reference to wet-sleeve.
......

Well Seattle will have a lot of moisture.
And this year Seattle is raining every day.
Never had summer




I would pack the cylinders in oil soaked paper.
Keep the top hats with oil cloth on them.

You need to clean the rust off ASAP as it will keep spreading otherwise.

Machine shop said he consciously did not install the o-rings as they are not needed. He said its really hard to install them as the block is heated to 350 degrees and to drop the sleeves in there with the o-rings will likely melt.
He also said that if I really wanted the o-rings in there, then the sleeves can be reused no problem. That contradicts what Turner is telling me

It is very clear that your machine shop was not confident enough on how to instal the o-
ring without damaging them, perhaps had never done it b4, so I wouldn't blame him for not doing it, he also didn't try to hide the fact that he didn't instal o-rings, otherwise he wouldn't give o-rings back to & you would not have known that he didn't use them,,,
But he should have told you he is not going to use them & explain why (whatever the reason could have been, a let you make the decision if you still want him to continue to finish job), I can tell you lots of machine shops will not be familiar with those liners , some racing machine shops will be more familiar with how to instal them & they would have asked you for a lot more money to instal them too,
Now that he installed them his way, is he confident enough to stand behind his work & give you guarantee that if block/Liners fail due to him ignoring manufacture procedure (by doing it his way,) he is responsible ,? If he can put it in your contract you should be ok & just have him clean the rust off of the parts, & if he doesn't want to take responsibility , then I don't know, what to suggest, legal action, or boxing,,, joking about last part, it's always best to try to resolve problems in friendly manor first,, good luck,,

I went into the shop and had a 40 minute talk with him and another machinist. Very nice of them to talk with me so long. They stand by not using o-rings. They normally use LA sleeves and even though they have the groove in them as well, they specifically ask LA sleeves to not send them the o-rings. They acknowledged that they serve a purpose, but the benefit they claim is so extremely minimal that its not worth the risk of potentially seizing the block when fitting the o-rings. They said (paraphrasing - I might have this wrong) due to how low the cylinder sits in the crankcase, and that the waterjacket is about in the middle of the cylinder, that they really don't believe in the benefit of the o-rings.

Yes they should have communicated with me before installing the sleeves that they would not be using the o-rings.

They recommended to clean and hone and send me on my way without the o-rings. I stood behind firm on wanting the o-rings as per forum advice, Turner advice, Darton advice, and Q&E advice. I called all of them. so he offered a solution:

1. Pull the sleeves, put in the o-rings and reinstall the same sleeves. He would then measure for out of round and would be willing to work out a "deal" for replacing the sleeves if they measured out of round, but would not go into specifics.. "let's tackle that when we get there" he's very confident (he's reused sleeves before) that they will measure in spec.

Despite my persistent pushback, the machinist is not willing to cover the cost of new sleeves without first seeing if the current ones remain in spec.

I was very hesitant to agree on putting the same sleeves back in the block as it contradicts what both Turner and Darton have told me. Turner and Darton both say they'll be out of round for sure and cannot be re-used. Plus the fact that mine are rusted (my fault) makes me want new ones

I'm leaning towards proceeding with adding the o-rings and re-using the sleeves. My only other option is calling it a day and just do the hone to cleanout the rust. What would you do if you were me?

I've ordered a micrometer and dial bore gauge so I can check some things myself as well.

As for the crank, they will micro-polish it first, but he's pretty sure It'll need to be reground :( I asked if I could put another crank in there, but he says it is balanced with the engine so a regrind is the only option. I'm not stoked on this, as reading the manual there are some other complications that go along with regrinding, checking tolerances, etc, and buying another new set of bearings

If you asking my opinion about o-ring's, I would rather liners stay in place if they can guarantee it will not leak, (& from their words it seems like they never used any o-rings, and it has always worked, right?) rather than having them taken out & put back in,,, it will only put more stress on block & will not be as tight of a fit if they reuse same liners anyway,,, inside bore of liners will definitely need machining again if pulled out & pressed back in,,,
Now about crank, crank is balanced to itself by its anchors & you can see how some anchors have been drilled to make the balance if necessary, & also crank & flywheel assembly is always balanced as a unit, and then each piston & its own connecting rod assembly need to weight exactly the same as other ones (or in a very tight tolerance),, so changing a crank with another one if in good shape only requires the crank to be balanced with flywheel attached to it , (if it's not it's own flywheel),,, not the whole engine, since each piston/rod assembly is already supposed to be with in the specs,,,,
As for grinding crankshaft, if it will be the first or second grind & they have a good machine & can do a perfect job I don't see a problem, first grind you only take .25 mm from diameter & second grind only .50 mm, if done right no big deal, (i have had a very good machine shop offset grind a crank .75 mm for a old BMW m10 block to give it 1.5mm more stroke & I used it for 6 years & it was in great shape when I sold the car, but percise machining is the key),,
But have them polish it & see if it will fix issue first, (by the way a set of new oversized bearings costs far less than a standard size crank & then balancing it correctly with flywheel), but if you can afford to spend the extra, it brings some peace of mind,,,

The o-rings address a critical concern on these Rover blocks. When the bores are opened to accept the Darton top hats the possibility of creating compromise between the water jacket and bore is increased. Darton specifically instructs to install the liners and o-rings using silicone grease, not by heating the block. Heating the block will likely destroy the o-rings as your machine shop says.

Also, you want to avoid having your block decked too many times. Not sure what the tolerance and limits are (not a machinist) but be very careful. Compression changes as you remove material, and the valve train will probably need to be shimmed also to maintain the correct rocker tolerances.

Sorry you are dealing with this -- what a mess. :poop:

The way I understand it is the sleeves are interference fit by way of thermal expansion. No press fitting. So the block has to be hot and the sleeves have to be cool, right? The only other difference I could discern from this shop's method is that they heat the whole block up in an oven and do all the sleeves at the same time, as opposed to individually by blow torch. Turner is pretty convinced that this shop has not seen as many of our v8 blocks as he'd like me to believe... but I believe they are honest and do good work. The part that worries me is differing levels of expertise and experience.

Agreed on the decking... I'm worried I am putting too much more stress on this block, but for my own peace of mind I think I need to proceed with these o-rings. Though how easy would it be for them to toss the o-rings and say "yep, all done!" ha ha ha...

Again, I'm no machinist but I believe the fitment of Darton top hats is done with both block and liners at normal temps. Fitment is aided by the application of silicone grease, and all held in place by the counter-sunk top hat flanges that are immovable once the heads are installed and torqued. Not that the liners would be loose in their bores by any stretch of the imagination, it should be a precision fit.

The shop may or may not have seen many rover blocks, but they definitely had not done Darton sleeves with o-rings,,, heating block & fitting in cold sleeves is an old school way of lining Aluminum blocks, so block would hug the liners after cooling of, & that's why I suggested not to have them press it out, it will only further damage the blocks & liners, ( because as you push them out they scrape the wall and as each one comes out it relives some of the pressure that is in there while other bores under pressure, might even crack the skinny aluminum walls & if that happens will they take responsibility or blame it on you that wanted them to take it out, make sure who will be held responsible), reheating block in order to push liners out will only help a little (since liners will also expand but not as much as block) unfortunately your choices right now are not that many, ask the "WHAT IF" b4 going further , not "LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS,THEN WE WILL TALK ABOUT IT",, tuffff decision,,,