Look in your intake manifold(past the throttle body) see if you have any standing fluid in there.

 

Like immediately behind TB / just before the runners? I have an okay boroscope I can throw in there pretty quick. What are you thinking?

Any thoughts on possible trans/flywheel imbalance?

I'll do compression and boroscope tomorrow I think - gf's birthday today.

Oh and I replied in the wrong thread about your exhaust manifold comment - thanks btw, how hard is the passenger side to get to? That's definitely the loud side. In fact I can't get a recording of the knocking noise on that side wheel well because the exhaust tick even at idle is so loud now. There's no way that small of a leak could cause some problems with an exhaust valve is there?

 

Had a few minutes this evening before I left the shop. I didn't realize how large the area is where the runners pull from, I thought they continued individually or something like the molding suggests from the outside.

So inside that big black plastic valley area where the runners pull from, there's a shaped dip area molded on the bottom floor, 8 of them I think, maybe it was 4.

There appeared to be a small puddle of oil in each of those dips, I touched the camera into it and it's brand new oil, not black or anything (I just changed the oil about 1200mi ago).

Entire plastic manifold had wet coating but seems like typical crankcase residue. For all I know even the accumulated oil is normal?

I wonder if my PCV has taken a crap. Not that it would cause the vibration, but still. I do look behind me in the rare cases I have a chance to stomp on it, and haven't really seen the telltale white cloud of smoke. She doesn't smoke at all.

Inlet for EGR near TB looks nasty but at 100k+ I'd expect that.

 

Okay one more update tonight - when I got home and paused for a second before getting out, I realized for the first time how MUCH LOUDER the noise is while still in drive but stationary. I don't usually have HVAC / radio off unless I'm in park.

I switched back into/out of park a few times with my head down by the pax footwell and was kinda shocked at how the noise changed. I might crawl under the car tomorrow and have someone do the same thing while listening near the bell housing area.

I know load can impact the forces on an engine dramatically, even if it's a few % (loads / unloads tons of bearings and pins) - but this REALLY sounded related to the forces applied to certain transmission components or near crank output on engine. Definitely exactly the same area also - about a foot forward of the shifter near footwells.

One thing that has surprised me since doing camshaft position sensors and the spark plugs is just how forward the engines are mounted in these. Maybe the TDV6 is deeper in areas w/ plumbing? Or perhaps the transfer case and driveshafts require extra space.. and the AJ is a compact engine, but in any case - what I hear near my feet and center console is actually mostly transmission.

I'll pull the workshop manual again and see if there's some kind of access door on bell housing for flywheel inspection or anything like that (yeah I can hear everyone laughing now - not like this is a 700R4 or turbo 350 or something..) worth a shot w/ a boroscope. I recall X5s having many symptoms similar w/ ZF6HP but if ours were prone I'd expect a similar reputation - and there really isn't any. Something about rivets failing?

On my LR3 I saw multiple service records (dealer, not carfax) reporting trouble with the transmission early in its life from 35-60k miles when the records stopped from my source. The most dramatic of which was the one I posted earlier of customer complaining of hesitation on accel. and it slamming into gear / taking off. Tech noted "multiple leaks in transmission system" and replaced multiple lines, pan, sleeve, etc.

There were other reports of it slamming into gears or thunking, and three different times the tech noted "updated transmission software" - but AFAIK it would have been to the latest update by the first round. Certainly by now, and it still thunks like a pig of a car in stop-and-go traffic for me to this day. This might point to some prior abuse that's just now signalling a component "letting go".

I need to verify the TCM software version as well - if it is in fact up to date and thunking this bad still (combined with the previous complaints) I think I can really start to narrow down on the transmission. I suppose good news is that if it's so obvious while in park/neutral/not moving, it shouldn't necessarily be internal to the body of the 6HP. Maybe TC, flywheel, etc.

 

It smoking would be a complete failure. I would get a new PCV valve on there, and drive it kind of hard for a while.

At steady engine speed above idle, you can be sloshing around any oil/liquid, which can cause it to be pulled into the runners, and effect combustion, causing a vibration. I find these PCV valves to partially fail pretty often, and recommend replacement on them every 45k.

With some of your issues going away and some starting after you did a seafoam treatment(which honestly, I personally very much dislike the process of doing those) I think a lot of your concern may be due to oil fouling.

I would also suggest getting to your exhaust manifold and checking for noise there before digging into the engine/trans, but there is a small plug on the bellhousing, although you can't really see much through it that would determine anything.

 

Thanks again for your help - and yeah at the time I was just thinking typical higher mileage ign / fuel / air dirt and contamination on most engines where you do some cleaning and plugs and it runs like new, hah wishful thinking!

Not doing that again, and I'm also sticking with 5w30 @ the same or superseded oil certifications/spec. I also went with a larger filter (the oe seems tiny for the high OCI's ) but might also go back to stock filter too.

How bad are the passenger manifold bolts? I can make just about any combination of wrenches / ratchets / extensions etc but i'm not sure that'll help me in this case lol.

That's interesting about the oil possibly causing a combustion problem but makes sense, especially with all that oil in there. Is that why you wanted me to look in the intake manifold?

edit: I Forgot to mention after looking inside the intake manifold yesterday and seeing that oil - I checked my oil level again and it's right in the middle. Thing is, I just did the oil change (at the full mark) AND added a can of LiquiMoly MOS2 antifriction a couple days ago, so the oil level should be at or a tiny bit above full.

On these things the "fill to full" is probably 1.5 qts right? Even if it's 1qt I must have burned about .5+ quart fairly recently which isn't normal for this engine.

LR has the PCV local for $50... ugh.

 

Manifold bolts aren't too bad, but require a little bit of disassembly to get to them.

I go in through the RF wheel well, remove the heatshields, and with a swivel socket you're there. It's tight, but doable.

Inductions services are great on these engines, but there's a much better way of doing it that results in far less issues, and much less possibility of damage, I put some info up on this a while ago on this and another forum, if you're interested in some pictures and information I can link the threads(not sure about this forums policy on linking to other forums though)

 

Yeah that would be great, I'll search it - I think I've seen your name pop up on the other forums as well as you chiming in on a PCV issue, I just saw that thread this morning but not the procedure lol. I wouldn't mind popping off the manifold and cleaning it one weekend but I guess I need a lot of random o-rings and stuff from dealer.

I just drove over to LR at lunch and got the PCV, how it's $50 is totally beyond me but oh well.

I'm kinda baffled though - I reset my MPG since I haven't checked it on the highway yet recently. I was over 20mpg at about 64mph and up to 22 around 55-58. WITH my 20" wheels and 32" tires (2" over stock) and 2.5" lift!!

The motor has to be semi-happy.

When I picked up the PCV my service writer friend actually pulled a tech to talk to me for a sec (I didn't even ask!) and he said they've only pulled 2 of those transmissions this year on all models that used it, and I think they were both fluid leak-related. He really didn't have too many ideas other than updating the software - he said it sounds like maybe the ECM was never updated when they did the transmission updates previously so neither would be correct hence thunking still.

I know LR and jag guys have had weird problems fixed with software updates - not just the trans thunking but engine as well.

I'll put the PCV in after work. Wish I could get that oil out of there so the shape of the intake manifold is back to original design. Those flat puddles of oil can't be ideal for smooth airflow.

 

https://landroverforums.com/forum/lr...service-59972/

can someone help with throttle body location..

Cleaned my TB and finally my RRS runs smooth!!

 

Thanks for the links, that sounds like a great service for most of the 4.4 rovers I've seen, people let them get really nasty lol.

I basically did that actually - that other week I did the seafoam (I know it's not the crazy BG stuff..) new plugs (OE laser iridiums), capacitor (it had the old design in it), cleaned TB and MAF again, and liquimoly jectron and valveclean in fuel tank - also replaced the o-ring on dip stick. Couple days later I replaced the two camshaft position sensors and cleaned the MAP sensor on rear of engine/manifold as well. This evening I replaced the PCV (checked for vac leaks but the hoses look in surprisingly good shape on this motor). Drove it as hard as I could in the traffic, got one or two moderate pulls.

Mileage is up again, averaged 36mph in traffic on the way home and finished at 18.3mpg (again w/ 32's and a lift?!)

Next is software updates on all vehicle modules tomorrow (and for some food ) I know BT, air suspension, and PDC are out-dated so no reason ECM and TCM wouldn't be either.

Then after work Monday I'll pull compression. If for nothing else than to finally feel comfortable leaving the engine alone. After this past week and the great MPG plus hearing the noise focused near bell housing increase while stationary in drive/reverse, I'm thinking TC or something mounted on/near it.