That's too nice to bring in the woods.
 

Folks,

Many of you know me already on this site/forum from previous D2 experience and whatnot. Today I'm going to start sharing what I've been up to on my latest offroad project - an LR3, V8 SE.

I began looking for an LR3 with a rear locker or the "Heavy Duty Option" which would have come with the full size spare. After looking at many trucks, calling the poor parts dept guys at my semi-local land rover dealership with vin numbers, I decided instead of trying to find one with a locker, I just needed to find one in decent shape.

After a bit of hunting, I pulled the trigger on a 2005 LR3 w/ 41k miles.
https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...erior-6029.jpg
https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...erior-6031.jpg
Yes. Not a typo, 41k miles. I'm the 2nd owner, it was clearly garaged and driven very short distances.

In recent years, I've had a '98 TJ on 33s locked front and rear, A suzuki Samurai on 36's with a diesel swap and toyota 8" axles, and my last one, a 2000 D2 w/ CDL from a D1, 2" lift, 32s. I dumped my Jeep in perfect working order because I was tired of being another Jeep in a line of Jeeps on a trail. I like different.

Over the winter, I obtained a 1999 Jeep Cherokee. I'd never built one of those, but knew they are very common on the trails. This is what stopped me from building it -- I didn't want to be back in the same boat -- another Cherokee in the line of jeeps....

I hadn't given any consideration while looking at all of the LR3s -- to just how big they are. I mean, BIG. This picture was the first moment. I had backed it into the drive and turned around to give it a vanity check... and it hit me like a brick to the face - I literally thought "What have I done..." It's huge.
https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...rokee-6027.jpg

So now, in the midwest, or westcoast, offroading is far different than on the east coast. Over here, we've got tight trails due to trees, often muddy and wet rock / tree root structures. I've now got to try to fit this big girl through some of those trails... We'll see!

Egg'd on at a party for a friend I opted to take this girl through it's first... off pavement experience. It was some drifted snow in some very large fields. I'd been stuck here before, in deep snow with my Jeep, rescuing another guy, who had gotten stuck. It had taken a bobcat to shovel us out... I knew to stay close enough to be winched out this time -- and there were a few trucks there who could play rescue.

As I expected, I did end up getting stuck. It actually did WAY better than I expected for it's street tires! Once it broke through on all 4 corners of the compact snow, it was done. She was dangling all 4 wheels, and there's not much you'll do about that. This was the first time it was winched out, by a Jeep. :D
https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...-snow-6035.jpg

So, the weather was warming and spring was just around the corner -- this offroader better get going... Time to Mod!

Dave

Step one. Up.

After reviewing the lift rod options, the software mod options (IID tool) I decided the only proper option.

Both.

This truck would be getting larger tires. It will not be getting street tires ever again if I have any say in it. There's not going to be a point where it will be put down to stock height, so a permanent fix is right.

I looked at the Johnson Rods - The first guys in the field doing these lift rods. I saw something that I could have built myself, and at $180ish at the time, I considered it. I knew they were simply shorter rods, I've got the tools to do it, could make them from steel or aluminum... but time was looming over my head. Spring is coming!

Lucky8llc.com was running a promotion on their Proud Rhino lift rods, $120 including shipping. Done, not worth my time even attempting to source the bushings. (AA Battery for size)

https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...rhino-6039.jpg

I understand people will drive to the trail on their normal rods and swap these out when they get there. I have one question for you folks...

WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

Granted, it's not overly hard to do, but why would you?! It's annoying for me to get under this truck at all. Granted, I'm not a little skinny guy, and most trail heads are dirt... I would be covered in grime before even beginning my day of offroading! For the folks that want to run stock height, buy the software options. It'd be far easier to press a couple buttons of cruise control and move on with your life.

So, I got the rods on. While doing this, I was surprised by how flexy the stock rods are. Granted, there should be no reason these are under any real resistance so it should not matter one bit, but I still found it odd...

Well, here she is, in all her glory, looking lifted.

https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...-rods-6032.jpg

Now, it's going to need tires...

I knew I wanted the SE instead of the HSE just for the 18" wheels. Then, I heard about Lucky8's 17's. They've come up with something to fit a 17" wheel onto the rover. As best I can understand, they were prototype wheels, hence "offroad use only" - not DOT approved.

After much deliberation, I decided I just don't care enough. The 17's would only gain me 1/2" of rubber between the rim and the earth at best.

Tires, Tyres, Tires.

This truck is not my daily driver. This truck will drive to the trail, and at times, maybe even drive home! I do drive my offroaders on the street, sometimes to verify something has been fixed, sometimes to test something out, or sometimes just for fun.

With that said, I need tires.

After looking at many tire options, I was unhappy with what I could find. Most people doing offroad tires wanted some middle ground. Some are even daily drivers! Most of the folks putting tires on wanted great highway manners, be completely silent and amazing wicked super good offroad traction.

I however know the reality. If you have a tire that's good offroad, it will make noise. If your tire isn't noisy going down the road, you're compromising on offroad traction. Argue with me all you like, tread patterns have to be different to clear mud properly and to grab traction.

Now please don't take this as an insult to all other tires - Remember - this is NOT a road truck. If I had intentions to be using this as my everyday car - no way would I go to an extreme mud terrain tire...


I understand that just slightly over 32" is what the lift rods will clear...

I'm unable to find a dedicated, no compromise offroad tire that's anywhere around 32" for an 18" wheel. If anyone can bring one to the table, I'd be interested to hear.

So, with that said - I DO have a tire preference. I've run them on a few trucks and they do amazing in New England's terrain, and actually wear very well. There's a problem though.... They're too big.

The smallest my tire preference comes in, for an 17 or 18" wheel is 33x12.5.

Nitto Mud Grappler.

They're Loud. They're expensive. They have proven to me to have great puncture resistance and amazing wet / muddy / ice / snow traction. To me, for New England it is the best offroad tire you can run, this side of BFG Red Labels.

So, 33's it is. I've got a sawzall and hammers, I'll make'em fit.

Step one - Get'em out of the frame. With these 18's, running a 12.5" wide tire, it's going to need to come out. Normally, you buy wheels. Since it's a land rover, that's easier said than done. So, instead of trying to cross reference a wheel that was rated for the weight of the LR3 from another make to have the same hub and bolt pattern, I just sucked it up and went toward wheel spacers.

I found a place in the west that makes these: Bora - Bulletproof Offroad Wheel Adapters - Motorsport Tech.
"Our BORA Truck Spacers are manufactured BY US (no middleman), right here in the USA with top-of-the-line, state-of-the-art, HAAS CNC machines, using only the best U.S. Alcoa 6061t6 billet aluminum. Unlike our competitors, we provide a LIFETIME WARRANTY. Our spacers will set your truck up just like a factory setup, insuring a perfect ride."

These are Hub and Wheel Centric - It's got the indent to sit on your brake rotor/hub assembly AND still hold the wheel true to the spacer. This is key. Without that, this truck would never roll true down the road.

https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...acers-6034.jpg

They arrived with the lugs installed and the lug nuts included. They're very nicely machined! Thanks again Lenny, I could not be happier.

So now, I've got the lift. I've got the spacers. It's still going to require trimming, but I can't do that until I get some tires. The tire company I use isn't really that local to me, but they've got great prices and great service. I buy all of my tires from these guys. Rucki and Sons Tire.

Knowing that I don't want to drive the truck there and find out once the tires are on it won't move, I've gotta put it up on jackstands and bring the wheels to be done... Sounds easy enough...

Then I tried to lift the LR3.

Wholy god is this thing different to lift up. Normally, I roll a floor jack under the axle, lift it up, throw it on jackstands and pull the tires off. This... has no solid axle. Had a nicely timed thread on this situation - Jacking Locations.

I proceeded to try to get this puppy up in the air. I must have had this up and down about 5x before I could get it up high enough to fit the NEW tires that would be coming and still be safe to have all 4 wheels off at once.

This is where I learned a very cool thing about the D3 - The rear tires have SERIOUS flex. It's really quite insane.

https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...droop-6028.jpg

Another issue I ran into - It's too big! Damn thing was so high to get the tires off the ground it would hit my garage door!

https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...oblem-6030.jpg

I ended up backing it in to get the higher point of the truck away from the door. Finally got it up on jackstands... and then my wife says - "It's not on that one." I just had lowered it off the floor jack. I blinked and thought to myself - What's she talking about - it's off the floor jack.....:confused:

Sure enough... It was on 3 of my jackstands. The 4th jackstand wasn't touching. I sat back in amazement for a second to reflect on this situation. I've never seen this before. I've got a truck, up on jackstands and it's not using all of them.

The unitbody and ladder frame that these trucks have is what causes their immense weight. A truck this size is only ~300lbs shy of a suburban.... That's insane by itself, but now I see why - The rigidity of this truck is even MORE insane. This truck has ZERO body/frame flex. I have never seen another vehicle ever be this rigid. Not full size F body Fords, Suburbans, cars with unibody design - nothing.

This to me is truly impressive.

I left it on the 3 - with the other in place 1/4" from touching and rolled the floor jack back over to that point, for just-in-case.

I went and picked up the first 4 tires...

https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...ittos-6033.jpg

To be continued... Gotta cook a mothersday breakfast. :D

The tires go on.
https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...tires-6036.jpg

Everything I have read, there's no way 33's will fit. I've found that the trimming required is way less than what everyone would lead me to believe. Granted, I'm still trimming, so it's a work in progress, but it's getting close.

I need to get some heater hose to reroute the rear heater core that is up under the rear passenger wheel well. I'll be updating that with pictures when I get through it - since I haven't seen any before. They were in a completely different location than what I had in my mind as I read about it.

To be completely drivable on the road, aside from the very tight turns into parking spots -- this is what I needed to remove to have 33x12.5's fit.

https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...5-lr3-6037.jpg

It was nowhere near as bad as I was expecting.

I've pulled off the running boards in preparation for the rock rails that I'll be building. I hope to do those, and get the hoses rerouted before next weekend. Sunday May 17th is it's official first trail run.

https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...etter-6038.jpg

The 12.5" wide tires really look great on this truck. It's transformed it's stance, notably. Love it.

I think you can rebolt the garage door piece to shorten it up. That's a disaster waiting to happen.

Sweet build thread, Dave! Keep it coming...please. I LOVE those tires! I don't think you'll know all the areas you need to trim until you get it on the trail. Please take lots of pics at the trail run, too!

LOL, I reread your post, and you complained about Nitto Terra Grapplers being load. I haven't noticed that honestly, but I would be curious how loud those monsters are you bolted on, and how you anticipate they will do in the snow and ice?

What happens when you go into the low height setting? Maybe the 2" toddco lift is necessary?

Looking Good so far..

Though I've never run them, I'm sure the Terra Grapplers are MUCH more polite. As for the Mud Grapplers, This will be the 3rd set I've run in New England. They actually do very well in ice and snow -- every block has siping (sp?) and they flex well. The only downside is they howl. And by howl -- the best explanation I've come up with for these is - You're being followed by a small biplane, at all times. They're so loud that you will no longer hear your engine. (impending task, louder exhaust) When you give it throttle and make the engine get some revs, you still hear the tires. They get louder under the force of throttle... :D

So, I hope I don't come across as complaining -- as it's not my intent. I'm very happy to give up the nice quiet street performance for what it'll do off the street!

I suppose, the best thing here I could do is take a video. I'll try to give you guys a good idea of just how loud they are. :D The one real nice part is the Rover is WAY quieter than my jeep inside, so it's less obnoxious!

As for fitment in access height - it will roll, but don't bother trying to turn. I may trim until it fits there, honestly. If I do this, It'll be far nicer under compression in the woods, too.

Sunday is the first real trail day. I've got to build rock rails/tree sliders, relocate the rear coolant lines and trim some more before then... too much to do!

Dave

Tire Sound
 

Well, here's the Nittos. The iPhone is trying to subdue the background noise to pickup foreground sound. You'll still get an idea of it, but it's louder in person, I assure you. I may attempt to use a different sound recorder with multiple mics designed to pickup everything instead, but for now, this'll do.


Dave

Thanks... Have you considered the 2" toddco spacers, that might solve your turning issue should you have a suspension failure, etc.

There is a group buy afoot w/lucky8 for the Devon D44 Discreet winch mount that I have. Unless you plan to put on bumpers, this would be a great addition to your build. Jerdog53 should be making a post on it before long.