Prepping for lift - HD DC Front Drive Shaft
#1
06-26-2012, 02:06 AM
Prepping for lift - HD DC Front Drive Shaft
I am waiting for a few more parts to start my lift, so in the meantime, I have taken the liberty to install my new HD Front Drive Shaft. Getting the old one off took almost 3 hours due to some of the rust on bolts and inaccessibility of the bolts to ratcheting wrenches/sockets. New drive shaft went on in less than 45 minutes.
While working on the rig, I took the liberty to remove the brush guard, lower plastic bumper components and side steps.
Next on the docket:
OME 2" Coil Lift + 1" Spacers & Nitro Shocks
Rear HD Drive Shaft plus Rotoflex to U Joint Conversion
255/85 R16 MT (BFG or Toyo still TBD - any experience/preference)
Next Year:
4.11 gears and ARB Air Locker
Bumper Winch (Brand TBD)
I'll try to post more pics of the progress. And yes - that is oil on the ground. I am waiting to get the crank seal replaced.
While working on the rig, I took the liberty to remove the brush guard, lower plastic bumper components and side steps.
Next on the docket:
OME 2" Coil Lift + 1" Spacers & Nitro Shocks
Rear HD Drive Shaft plus Rotoflex to U Joint Conversion
255/85 R16 MT (BFG or Toyo still TBD - any experience/preference)
Next Year:
4.11 gears and ARB Air Locker
Bumper Winch (Brand TBD)
I'll try to post more pics of the progress. And yes - that is oil on the ground. I am waiting to get the crank seal replaced.
#2
06-26-2012, 07:37 AM
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In the future, just to help you, always spray the bolts or nuts with any good penatrating fluid to loosen the bolts, a front drive shaft is a 15 minute job normally.
May I ask why you are wanting to do a 2" lift plus a spacer?
Also, why go thru the expence of a rear drive shaft conversion, keep what you have, maybe install a new $55 roto flex, that shaft will easily handle 3 to 4"s of lift.
What sort of wheeling will you be doing?
May I ask why you are wanting to do a 2" lift plus a spacer?
Also, why go thru the expence of a rear drive shaft conversion, keep what you have, maybe install a new $55 roto flex, that shaft will easily handle 3 to 4"s of lift.
What sort of wheeling will you be doing?
#3
06-26-2012, 11:37 AM
A few things worth mentioning.
1) You will be disappointed with the travel on those shocks. With the lift and 1" spacer you'll have almost zero downtravel
2) Fitting 255/85/16's on a 2" OME, even with 1" spacer, will be interesting and will require a good amount of trimming
3) You will need even more trimming with those tires if you want any kind of articulation and remove or disconnect your swaybars.
4) It's doubtful you'll need a HD driveshaft, or a ujoint one with the amount of lift you plan. It won't hurt to get it but you probably don't need it.
5) You'll want HD axles with any kind of locker, too.
It seems like you're committed to setting up your truck and you want to do it the right way and I applaude that.
Can I suggest you take a look at people's pictures, see what kind of set up they're running, and decide what you want to be able to do with your truck.
*Note: my avatar was when I had 2" RTE springs, otherwise the same set up as in my sig. And the inspiration for setting my truck up that way came from another picture I found on this forum. I said to myself "THAT'S what I want to do!".
1) You will be disappointed with the travel on those shocks. With the lift and 1" spacer you'll have almost zero downtravel
2) Fitting 255/85/16's on a 2" OME, even with 1" spacer, will be interesting and will require a good amount of trimming
3) You will need even more trimming with those tires if you want any kind of articulation and remove or disconnect your swaybars.
4) It's doubtful you'll need a HD driveshaft, or a ujoint one with the amount of lift you plan. It won't hurt to get it but you probably don't need it.
5) You'll want HD axles with any kind of locker, too.
It seems like you're committed to setting up your truck and you want to do it the right way and I applaude that.
Can I suggest you take a look at people's pictures, see what kind of set up they're running, and decide what you want to be able to do with your truck.
*Note: my avatar was when I had 2" RTE springs, otherwise the same set up as in my sig. And the inspiration for setting my truck up that way came from another picture I found on this forum. I said to myself "THAT'S what I want to do!".
Last edited by fishEH; 06-26-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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JUKE179r (11-28-2016)
#4
06-28-2012, 01:38 AM
Mike, FishEH,
Thanks for the info and questions. I appreciate all the helpful info that comes out of this forum. First a question:
- I did have PB Blaster, but only sprayed it on the bolts as I needed to - so this could have saved some time. I only have the current bottle jack so I was unable to get the vehicle up really high, but I am still curious as to how I could have taken the front drive shaft off in 15 mins? I don't have a compressor or air tools, but also could not find a way to get my ratcheting wrenches or sockets over the bolts.
Now for some background on my research (and mind you I am no expert, but am trying to consider the feedback of many different opinions from these forums as well as speaking to folks)
I am building my rig to take on the Rubicon, but also plan on taking on a lot of moderate to difficult trails in Northern CA.
The 2" plus spacer is really a byproduct of wanting to get a 3" lift. I know OME has 3" springs, but the particular individual I was working with advised me that the 2" plus spacer was going to be the same as the 3" due to spring rates, compressions and load limits. The 3" RTE lift was really a 3.5" and required quite a few additional changes to deal with the geometry of that big of a lift.
I totally agree on the Rear Drive Shaft - as well as the U joint conversion. This was not required and could have been done much cheaper. This for me, was more of a decision of if I am going to build my truck up, to only do this once.
As for tires, I expect to do some trimming on the rear and likely needed to adjust the steering bump stops. I'd be curious to know what other folks have done as I see a lot of 285 tires - I would expect the wider tires to rub more aggressively.
I specifically asked about the shocks and potential limits for articulation and was told they would be sufficient. I did not want to pursue retaining cones, etc. I guess I'll have to see how this may impact me on the trail, but I would think that even if the travel was not as long as one might expect, that the Discos already had very good articulation for a stock vehicle. Additionally, once you have locking diffs, the need for extreme articulation is somewhat less important since you will be able to drive power to the wheels with traction. Does this make sense? Or have folks experienced something else in their driving adventures?
I am very curious on the HD axles. I have ready a wide variety of various setups which include successes and failures of the standard axles. I have heard the standard axles can and will twist up to 720 degrees before failing. If you are fully locked all the time (e.g. detroit) then you constantly are putting more strain on the axles and if one breaks, you may also break your diff. If you are running a TT or even air lockers, and break an axle, generally speaking (90%+) you won't cause damage to your locker/diff. Since the HD axles are fairly pricey, I went to Pick N Pull and grabbed 4 axles (front and rear) for less than $100. I look at this as cheap insurance for the future. If I observe constant failures, then I may consider the upgrade.
As for "the look", this pic may be a good representation of what I am trying to achieve:
Why skinny tires - Expedition Portal
(check the pic of the yellow disco on the 3rd post)
I really appreciate your input and advice and am still trying to learn, so any additional feedback or ideas for consideration would be greatly appreciated.
Hope to see you guys on the trail!
Thanks for the info and questions. I appreciate all the helpful info that comes out of this forum. First a question:
- I did have PB Blaster, but only sprayed it on the bolts as I needed to - so this could have saved some time. I only have the current bottle jack so I was unable to get the vehicle up really high, but I am still curious as to how I could have taken the front drive shaft off in 15 mins? I don't have a compressor or air tools, but also could not find a way to get my ratcheting wrenches or sockets over the bolts.
Now for some background on my research (and mind you I am no expert, but am trying to consider the feedback of many different opinions from these forums as well as speaking to folks)
I am building my rig to take on the Rubicon, but also plan on taking on a lot of moderate to difficult trails in Northern CA.
The 2" plus spacer is really a byproduct of wanting to get a 3" lift. I know OME has 3" springs, but the particular individual I was working with advised me that the 2" plus spacer was going to be the same as the 3" due to spring rates, compressions and load limits. The 3" RTE lift was really a 3.5" and required quite a few additional changes to deal with the geometry of that big of a lift.
I totally agree on the Rear Drive Shaft - as well as the U joint conversion. This was not required and could have been done much cheaper. This for me, was more of a decision of if I am going to build my truck up, to only do this once.
As for tires, I expect to do some trimming on the rear and likely needed to adjust the steering bump stops. I'd be curious to know what other folks have done as I see a lot of 285 tires - I would expect the wider tires to rub more aggressively.
I specifically asked about the shocks and potential limits for articulation and was told they would be sufficient. I did not want to pursue retaining cones, etc. I guess I'll have to see how this may impact me on the trail, but I would think that even if the travel was not as long as one might expect, that the Discos already had very good articulation for a stock vehicle. Additionally, once you have locking diffs, the need for extreme articulation is somewhat less important since you will be able to drive power to the wheels with traction. Does this make sense? Or have folks experienced something else in their driving adventures?
I am very curious on the HD axles. I have ready a wide variety of various setups which include successes and failures of the standard axles. I have heard the standard axles can and will twist up to 720 degrees before failing. If you are fully locked all the time (e.g. detroit) then you constantly are putting more strain on the axles and if one breaks, you may also break your diff. If you are running a TT or even air lockers, and break an axle, generally speaking (90%+) you won't cause damage to your locker/diff. Since the HD axles are fairly pricey, I went to Pick N Pull and grabbed 4 axles (front and rear) for less than $100. I look at this as cheap insurance for the future. If I observe constant failures, then I may consider the upgrade.
As for "the look", this pic may be a good representation of what I am trying to achieve:
Why skinny tires - Expedition Portal
(check the pic of the yellow disco on the 3rd post)
I really appreciate your input and advice and am still trying to learn, so any additional feedback or ideas for consideration would be greatly appreciated.
Hope to see you guys on the trail!
#5
06-28-2012, 09:35 AM
- The front driveshaft can take only 15 minutes if you've done it before. Two 9/16" box end wrenches work the best. AB sells a special drivechaft socket that is helpful too but not needed. The truck doesn't need to be jacked up, the DS can be pulled while on the ground. I ALWAYS use a 6pt Box end wrench to at least break the nuts loose. I have air tools and never use them on the DS because its too easy to cross thread something or booger up the threads even when removing the nuts.
- Who are you talking to about your lift? I've never run the Rubicon but I would imagine you'll want a HD winch bumper and rock sliders minimum. Maybe a rear bumper too. That all adds quite a bit of weight. You sound like you've done quite a bit of research on this and are willing to take your time to get it right. My 2cents is you get the 3"RTE springs. By the time you add the above armor you'll probably be sitting 3".
- To run the 3" lift you'll want to get cranked/castor corrected radius arms and cranked trailing arms, and the front DC driveshaft which you already have. To run the Rubicon you'd probably want to upgrade your trailing arms to HD anyways, the stock ones are weak.
- Shocks. This is kinda about personal preferance. However, I think you'll be surprised when you actually look at the specs of the OME shocks vs even that of Terra Firma shocks.
Here's the #'s:
OME
60037 Front 12.95-21.77", 8.82" travel
60039 Rear 13.62-22.04", 8.42" travel
Terra Firma +2"
Front 15.55-25.59", 10.04" travel
Rear 15.35-24.80", 9.45" travel
Here's the kicker. The TF front shocks are 3.82" longer than the OME front shocks, and the TF rear shocks are 2.76" longer than the OME rear shocks. The OME shocks will have more uptravel. However, if you're running 33" tires your uptravel will need to be limited to prevent rubbing. So basically you'll have a bunch of wasted uptravel with the OME's with very limited downtravel.
Yes, the lockers will compensate for it somewhat but IMO there is no reason to go with the OME shocks, especially with a 3" lift.
- I think you'll find that most everybody will highly recommend HD axles. And even HD axles can and will twist. The key is to NOT spin your wheels.
Here's some pics of my truck and another D1. Both 2" lift, Gold truck has OME shocks, I have Rancho 9000's with 11.42" of travel and cones. The Gold truck has ARB lockers front and rear. He could have gone further up the ramp but his truck became a teeter-totter. I swithced from the OME Nitro shocks to what I have now, and the difference is incredible. The truck articulates MUCH better. I can slowly crawl over things that I had to goose the gas to get over before.
- Who are you talking to about your lift? I've never run the Rubicon but I would imagine you'll want a HD winch bumper and rock sliders minimum. Maybe a rear bumper too. That all adds quite a bit of weight. You sound like you've done quite a bit of research on this and are willing to take your time to get it right. My 2cents is you get the 3"RTE springs. By the time you add the above armor you'll probably be sitting 3".
- To run the 3" lift you'll want to get cranked/castor corrected radius arms and cranked trailing arms, and the front DC driveshaft which you already have. To run the Rubicon you'd probably want to upgrade your trailing arms to HD anyways, the stock ones are weak.
- Shocks. This is kinda about personal preferance. However, I think you'll be surprised when you actually look at the specs of the OME shocks vs even that of Terra Firma shocks.
Here's the #'s:
OME
60037 Front 12.95-21.77", 8.82" travel
60039 Rear 13.62-22.04", 8.42" travel
Terra Firma +2"
Front 15.55-25.59", 10.04" travel
Rear 15.35-24.80", 9.45" travel
Here's the kicker. The TF front shocks are 3.82" longer than the OME front shocks, and the TF rear shocks are 2.76" longer than the OME rear shocks. The OME shocks will have more uptravel. However, if you're running 33" tires your uptravel will need to be limited to prevent rubbing. So basically you'll have a bunch of wasted uptravel with the OME's with very limited downtravel.
Yes, the lockers will compensate for it somewhat but IMO there is no reason to go with the OME shocks, especially with a 3" lift.
- I think you'll find that most everybody will highly recommend HD axles. And even HD axles can and will twist. The key is to NOT spin your wheels.
Here's some pics of my truck and another D1. Both 2" lift, Gold truck has OME shocks, I have Rancho 9000's with 11.42" of travel and cones. The Gold truck has ARB lockers front and rear. He could have gone further up the ramp but his truck became a teeter-totter. I swithced from the OME Nitro shocks to what I have now, and the difference is incredible. The truck articulates MUCH better. I can slowly crawl over things that I had to goose the gas to get over before.
Last edited by fishEH; 06-28-2012 at 10:09 AM.
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JUKE179r (11-28-2016)
#6
06-29-2012, 01:31 AM
Wow! Those pics are worth a thousand words. Thanks for all that info - it is extremely helpful and definitely food for thought. I had already purchased the shocks/springs before making my post, so for now, I am going to stick with the OME setup and see how it works out. After I have done the lift, I'll have experience taking the shocks off and on, so if it warrants, I may switch them out if it is impacting my ability to navigate. Thanks for the note on the Radius Arms - I actually have those too, just didn't mention in my post. I also got some beefed up rear trailing arms - though they are not cranked - just reinforced.
One question on the OME Nitrocharger Sports - in looking at my Part Number, I have the 60037L and 60039L. How are the "L" models different from the standard 60037 and 60039? I cannot find any specifications on the internet for the "L".
My buddy took his disco on the rubicon with a 2" OME lift/bilstens and said the guys with the 3" lifts and 33" tires navigated far easier than he did. I didn't get the details on all the other vehicles, but I imagine there is a variety of RTE and OME lifts, spacers, tires sizes, etc. that all factor into the ease of conquering the trail.
As you eluded to, having the right setup is helpful, but not spinning wheels and practicing good technique may get you farther than an even more built rig.
Lastly, I will be getting some armor, sliders, etc. Just trying not to scare the wife with all the costs coming at once. I picked up my rig for $2200, so with the drive shafts, lift, trailing/radius arms, etc. I have already spent more than I paid for the truck. I still need new tires, then Lockers/Gears/Compressor will run another $4K, then everything else will be at least another $3K+. She wouldn't let me get a winch for our LR4 since that cost $5K. The compromise is that I got to buy the Disco and I won't take the LR4 wheeling unless it is a dealer sponsored event
I am definitely trying to take my time to do this right and do the research. I know when I am done and after I have wheeled it a lot, there are going to be things I wish I had done differently. Hopefully those are not deal breakers, or are things that can be changed out for a small cost.
If you have any other insights, I'd be happy to hear your perspective. I'll be sure to keep posting pics as I make progress. I am hoping to get the lift done in the next month - my radius arms arrive next week!
One question on the OME Nitrocharger Sports - in looking at my Part Number, I have the 60037L and 60039L. How are the "L" models different from the standard 60037 and 60039? I cannot find any specifications on the internet for the "L".
My buddy took his disco on the rubicon with a 2" OME lift/bilstens and said the guys with the 3" lifts and 33" tires navigated far easier than he did. I didn't get the details on all the other vehicles, but I imagine there is a variety of RTE and OME lifts, spacers, tires sizes, etc. that all factor into the ease of conquering the trail.
As you eluded to, having the right setup is helpful, but not spinning wheels and practicing good technique may get you farther than an even more built rig.
Lastly, I will be getting some armor, sliders, etc. Just trying not to scare the wife with all the costs coming at once. I picked up my rig for $2200, so with the drive shafts, lift, trailing/radius arms, etc. I have already spent more than I paid for the truck. I still need new tires, then Lockers/Gears/Compressor will run another $4K, then everything else will be at least another $3K+. She wouldn't let me get a winch for our LR4 since that cost $5K. The compromise is that I got to buy the Disco and I won't take the LR4 wheeling unless it is a dealer sponsored event
I am definitely trying to take my time to do this right and do the research. I know when I am done and after I have wheeled it a lot, there are going to be things I wish I had done differently. Hopefully those are not deal breakers, or are things that can be changed out for a small cost.
If you have any other insights, I'd be happy to hear your perspective. I'll be sure to keep posting pics as I make progress. I am hoping to get the lift done in the next month - my radius arms arrive next week!
#7
06-29-2012, 01:47 AM
fishEH, i just found a post that has the lengths for the 60037/39 and "L" versions. See below:
Nitrocharger Sport:
Front: Part # 60037, Open Length (553mm), Closed Length (329mm) - 12.95-21.77", 8.82" travel
Rear: Part # 60039, Open Length (560mm), Closes Length (346mm) - 13.62-22.04", 8.42" travel
There used to be longer shocks with part numbers N174 and N175 (good memory). These were the original Nitrocharger version and have now been replaced with the Nitrocharger Sport version (below).
Nitrocharger Sport:
Front: Part # 60037L, Open Length (593mm), Closed Length (349mm) - 13.74-23.34", 9.6"
Rear: Part # 60039L, Open Length (600mm), Closes Length (366mm) - 14.41-23.62", 9.2"
The TF +2" are still longer when compressed and fully extended, but the difference is much closer now - only a 1" difference on the rear, but 2" up front.
Thanks - you forced me to do more research and learn something that I had very little clue about
All the best!
Nitrocharger Sport:
Front: Part # 60037, Open Length (553mm), Closed Length (329mm) - 12.95-21.77", 8.82" travel
Rear: Part # 60039, Open Length (560mm), Closes Length (346mm) - 13.62-22.04", 8.42" travel
There used to be longer shocks with part numbers N174 and N175 (good memory). These were the original Nitrocharger version and have now been replaced with the Nitrocharger Sport version (below).
Nitrocharger Sport:
Front: Part # 60037L, Open Length (593mm), Closed Length (349mm) - 13.74-23.34", 9.6"
Rear: Part # 60039L, Open Length (600mm), Closes Length (366mm) - 14.41-23.62", 9.2"
The TF +2" are still longer when compressed and fully extended, but the difference is much closer now - only a 1" difference on the rear, but 2" up front.
Thanks - you forced me to do more research and learn something that I had very little clue about
All the best!
#8
06-29-2012, 12:06 PM
#10
07-23-2012, 01:11 AM
Mudding
what part of Nor Cal do you live in. im up in Paradise about 10miles west of Chico and about 100 miles north of Sac. but if you are going to try to do the rubicon you will be able to do it in a stock dico without an issue. you may come out with rock rash and a few dents but should be able to make it through with out braking anything and without lockers. i have done this trail many time for the past years. started with a stock jeep and over time progressively gotten bigger and bigger with it.
when you hear about the rubicon being this hard trail it really isn't. the "hard" parts are optional ae little sluice and old sluice box. you have to go through big sluice box to get into rubicon springs but isn't bad. maybe a 4 foot drop at an angle. also a few years back they blew up the gate keeper so now you can take a truck with 31's and walk through it.
i will be soon putting a 3 inch lift, 33's mounted on full 15inch steel beadlocked rims, ox locks front and rear. ill make sure i grab some axles. im sure ill be braking them.
but it sounds like you are going to be making a bad *** rig that will be able to do almost anything.
when you hear about the rubicon being this hard trail it really isn't. the "hard" parts are optional ae little sluice and old sluice box. you have to go through big sluice box to get into rubicon springs but isn't bad. maybe a 4 foot drop at an angle. also a few years back they blew up the gate keeper so now you can take a truck with 31's and walk through it.
i will be soon putting a 3 inch lift, 33's mounted on full 15inch steel beadlocked rims, ox locks front and rear. ill make sure i grab some axles. im sure ill be braking them.
but it sounds like you are going to be making a bad *** rig that will be able to do almost anything.