need help disagnosing front seal leak
#1
11-24-2015, 12:27 PM
need help disagnosing front seal leak
2000 Disco II.
I've had engine issues and had to swap my old engine back in. I replaced all seals and gaskets except the paper timing cover gasket... I just didn't have one so I used RTV. That worked but it thought it hadn't because I am seeing a copius oil leak at the front. I did replace the main seal, was careful with it, and I am sure it was seated properly. Neither the crank nor the pulley showed any scoring or grit where the seal sits.
But I am still getting copious oil from behind the pulley. I removed the shroud and fan last night and wiped everything off, then laid under it while it idled. After about 3 minutes I saw oil coming from behind the pulley. One thing I didn't think to check was the oil pressure sensor, but the oil would have to run from it to both sides of the pulley because it is on both sides of the engine. I'll check that this evening.
My current thought is that I am getting some pressure in the bottom of the engine that is pushing oil past the front seal. Can I test that theory by running it without the dipstick tube? Would the bearings have anything to do with it? Could I have grabbed the wrong seal? I had a bunch of different new seals... would one from somewhere else fit the front? I put the front cover on in the engine compartment so I couldn't see the crank pulley slide in the seal. I have completely assembled an engine recently but I really don't completely understand how oil gets to and past that seal, except by it being worn (this one has maybe 100 miles on it). Any suggestions or explanation would be appreciated. I've ordered a replacement seal and can swap it with the standard amount of difficulty.
Best,
Charlie V
I've had engine issues and had to swap my old engine back in. I replaced all seals and gaskets except the paper timing cover gasket... I just didn't have one so I used RTV. That worked but it thought it hadn't because I am seeing a copius oil leak at the front. I did replace the main seal, was careful with it, and I am sure it was seated properly. Neither the crank nor the pulley showed any scoring or grit where the seal sits.
But I am still getting copious oil from behind the pulley. I removed the shroud and fan last night and wiped everything off, then laid under it while it idled. After about 3 minutes I saw oil coming from behind the pulley. One thing I didn't think to check was the oil pressure sensor, but the oil would have to run from it to both sides of the pulley because it is on both sides of the engine. I'll check that this evening.
My current thought is that I am getting some pressure in the bottom of the engine that is pushing oil past the front seal. Can I test that theory by running it without the dipstick tube? Would the bearings have anything to do with it? Could I have grabbed the wrong seal? I had a bunch of different new seals... would one from somewhere else fit the front? I put the front cover on in the engine compartment so I couldn't see the crank pulley slide in the seal. I have completely assembled an engine recently but I really don't completely understand how oil gets to and past that seal, except by it being worn (this one has maybe 100 miles on it). Any suggestions or explanation would be appreciated. I've ordered a replacement seal and can swap it with the standard amount of difficulty.
Best,
Charlie V
Last edited by Charlie_V; 11-24-2015 at 12:29 PM.
#2
11-25-2015, 06:47 AM
Baja
wrong seal, bad seal, the spring on the back of the seal popped off, the seal was set exactly where the old one was. whatever pull the balancer and put in another seal.
Have you checked,cleaned or replaced the crank case vent in the valve cover. its purpose is to keep the crankcase from pressurizing.
Have you checked,cleaned or replaced the crank case vent in the valve cover. its purpose is to keep the crankcase from pressurizing.
#3
11-25-2015, 07:27 AM
2000 Disco II.
I've had engine issues and had to swap my old engine back in. I replaced all seals and gaskets except the paper timing cover gasket... I just didn't have one so I used RTV. That worked but it thought it hadn't because I am seeing a copius oil leak at the front. I did replace the main seal, was careful with it, and I am sure it was seated properly. Neither the crank nor the pulley showed any scoring or grit where the seal sits.
But I am still getting copious oil from behind the pulley. I removed the shroud and fan last night and wiped everything off, then laid under it while it idled. After about 3 minutes I saw oil coming from behind the pulley. One thing I didn't think to check was the oil pressure sensor, but the oil would have to run from it to both sides of the pulley because it is on both sides of the engine. I'll check that this evening.
My current thought is that I am getting some pressure in the bottom of the engine that is pushing oil past the front seal. Can I test that theory by running it without the dipstick tube? Would the bearings have anything to do with it? Could I have grabbed the wrong seal? I had a bunch of different new seals... would one from somewhere else fit the front? I put the front cover on in the engine compartment so I couldn't see the crank pulley slide in the seal. I have completely assembled an engine recently but I really don't completely understand how oil gets to and past that seal, except by it being worn (this one has maybe 100 miles on it). Any suggestions or explanation would be appreciated. I've ordered a replacement seal and can swap it with the standard amount of difficulty.
Best,
Charlie V
I've had engine issues and had to swap my old engine back in. I replaced all seals and gaskets except the paper timing cover gasket... I just didn't have one so I used RTV. That worked but it thought it hadn't because I am seeing a copius oil leak at the front. I did replace the main seal, was careful with it, and I am sure it was seated properly. Neither the crank nor the pulley showed any scoring or grit where the seal sits.
But I am still getting copious oil from behind the pulley. I removed the shroud and fan last night and wiped everything off, then laid under it while it idled. After about 3 minutes I saw oil coming from behind the pulley. One thing I didn't think to check was the oil pressure sensor, but the oil would have to run from it to both sides of the pulley because it is on both sides of the engine. I'll check that this evening.
My current thought is that I am getting some pressure in the bottom of the engine that is pushing oil past the front seal. Can I test that theory by running it without the dipstick tube? Would the bearings have anything to do with it? Could I have grabbed the wrong seal? I had a bunch of different new seals... would one from somewhere else fit the front? I put the front cover on in the engine compartment so I couldn't see the crank pulley slide in the seal. I have completely assembled an engine recently but I really don't completely understand how oil gets to and past that seal, except by it being worn (this one has maybe 100 miles on it). Any suggestions or explanation would be appreciated. I've ordered a replacement seal and can swap it with the standard amount of difficulty.
Best,
Charlie V
I had a very similar experience. Rebuilt my motor with the addition of all new gaskets, seals, etc. The only issue I had after reassembling the motor use a very light leak at the crank seal. I was a 100% certain the seal was properly inserted, seated. I couldn't figure it out. It'll have to be until next time.
I got the seal from AB. Possibly, bad seals from the manufacturer?
#4
11-25-2015, 08:29 AM
Well maybe it is just a bad seal. I didn't check the vent because I was just returning the engine home... I didn't remove the valve covers or anything on them. It did have a leak from the timing cover when I took it off, so I fixed that and the replaced the front seal just because I had one. Big mistake, apparently.
It probably is seated where the old one was. But there really isn't much room to alter the position of the seal. When I replace it I will try to keep it at a lesser depth.
It probably is seated where the old one was. But there really isn't much room to alter the position of the seal. When I replace it I will try to keep it at a lesser depth.
#5
11-29-2015, 06:28 PM
If/when you replace it, make sure...VERY sure....that it's surgically clean in there.
A speck of dirt, sand, metal, etc can get in there and trash a seal in no time.
I know this because I am prone to dropping things under the truck when working late at night, or halfway through a 6-pack, and then just wiping them off with a rag.
Now...after re-doing enough of my work, I'm double sure to clean everything back to shiny before it goes together.
And to echo the last post, yes, there are good seals and bad seals from manufacturer. I'm replacing one right now on my transfer case.
A speck of dirt, sand, metal, etc can get in there and trash a seal in no time.
I know this because I am prone to dropping things under the truck when working late at night, or halfway through a 6-pack, and then just wiping them off with a rag.
Now...after re-doing enough of my work, I'm double sure to clean everything back to shiny before it goes together.
And to echo the last post, yes, there are good seals and bad seals from manufacturer. I'm replacing one right now on my transfer case.
#6
11-30-2015, 01:36 PM
If/when you replace it, make sure...VERY sure....that it's surgically clean in there.
A speck of dirt, sand, metal, etc can get in there and trash a seal in no time.
I know this because I am prone to dropping things under the truck when working late at night, or halfway through a 6-pack, and then just wiping them off with a rag.
Now...after re-doing enough of my work, I'm double sure to clean everything back to shiny before it goes together.
And to echo the last post, yes, there are good seals and bad seals from manufacturer. I'm replacing one right now on my transfer case.
A speck of dirt, sand, metal, etc can get in there and trash a seal in no time.
I know this because I am prone to dropping things under the truck when working late at night, or halfway through a 6-pack, and then just wiping them off with a rag.
Now...after re-doing enough of my work, I'm double sure to clean everything back to shiny before it goes together.
And to echo the last post, yes, there are good seals and bad seals from manufacturer. I'm replacing one right now on my transfer case.
I'm thinking I got a bad or wrong seal. I recall it was brown and the several others I have (yeah, I keep everything) are black. I'm awaiting the new one. Itve spent some time trying to envision getting the old one off and the new one on with the front cover in place. Not going to be pleasant...
#8
12-02-2015, 08:41 AM
I've been waiting for days for the darned seal.
#9
12-02-2015, 09:18 PM
#10
12-03-2015, 08:19 PM
I feel your pain.
Put mine up on ramps to drop driveshaft, came home today from property inspections, and there is a basketball size puddle of brake fluid under the car....
They. Just. Don't. Stop. Leaking. Grrawrr.
I think my new rule is that every time something factory leaks, I'm going back with braided steel and billet aluminum. The trade off in price is worth my sanity.
Put mine up on ramps to drop driveshaft, came home today from property inspections, and there is a basketball size puddle of brake fluid under the car....
They. Just. Don't. Stop. Leaking. Grrawrr.
I think my new rule is that every time something factory leaks, I'm going back with braided steel and billet aluminum. The trade off in price is worth my sanity.