I did the brake modification to get the 18" wheels.

 

I agree with your point it was a bit sketchy a few years ago. I blame the financials problems on the decision to emphasize selling likely lower margin cars: Velar, Evoke, Disco Sport. I don't want any arrows, but those are not as good of a money maker for JLR as the Defender and RR. JLR's took their eye off the game of high end SUV production. Everyone has an opinion, but if JLR wanted to increase margins, sale of their advanced off road tech and air suspension would likely help. Building more cars gets revenue - but building Defenders that have as many optional features as possible likely boosts margins. Isn't the "Advanced 4x4" tech just a computer program? How good is the margin on that, particularly the more of the program they sell. What I can't get around is that if JLR had a trim with a P400 and 18" rims, it could then have KO2s. It's not likely someone buying that configuration isn't also spending on the off road tech. Offering the 18" is about potentially selling more "fully loaded" Defenders, vs the "no frills" lease modes I see on cargurus and others. If JLR allowed an 18" rim on a P400, I think that shopper is likely to also pay for the optional off road tech (as why else did you go for the 18"?!) Is the JLR model the best? Grenadier allows full customization: whatever you want, you pay for it, you will get it on a Grenadier. That's a model for selling expensive SUVs to picky (and rich) customers. I suspect Grenadiers go more to outright buyers, and JLR is relying more on lease production. I think Grenadier has a better model for high end buyers. JLR forcing people to pay for stuff that they may not want (like heads-up-displays), may seem like a winner. And in the short term, maybe it is. But long term, people with wallets don't forget. The person - not wasting $1,000 on a duplicative piece of tech that is just a speedometer on your windshield - instead may have spent $1,500 on an A Frame protection. Or $2,000 on a roof rack system. It's the sales of other features JLR may lose by being inflexible and forcing features on consumers they don't want that's hard to calculate. Personally, I think the Grenadier approach to sales is about as good as you get: blank slate, do what you want, and here's the list prices. As long as you pay, Ineos is happy to sell 18" rims, glass up top, and a bunch of different colors. It's a great model, and JLR giving up the 18" rim is - IMO - losing sales of some add-on features they would otherwise get from the off road crowd. Why buy $3k worth of off road tech if it's a lease model you'll only be driving to Whole Foods and then returning to the dealer in 3 years? When the dust settles, if the industry is still at 18" rims for off road tires, I think JLR should offer one Defender trim that can compete in that category.

 

I'm running LT265/60R20 on Style 516 LR4 20" wheels. Different offset to the Defender wheels.

 

Not to defend LR’s choices around Defender (I, like many other hard-cores, built my own 18” P400 and seeing how close the calipers are to fitting 18s without modification, it is absolutely not a technical reason that they did that, especially since weirdly it’s the REAR calipers that cause the problem, when every vehicle on earth has larger fronts than rears), but I ordered a Grennie and paid the deposit for a position in line very early, February 2022. My hope was that it was somehow a perfect blend between the old-school, mechanical off-roading of a Rubicon and the ride refinement and noise management of a Defender, at a Defender price. I really wanted to get back to locking my own damn diffs with a big honkin’ lever in the console, etc.

But after attending the half-day Grenadier introduction at an off-road park an hour away in April 2023, I sadly didn’t convert my reservation into an order (though my good friend who went with me did, and now has his). Too many fails as an everyday luxury SUV took it off my must-have list, particularly around step-in height (over 10” higher than my air-suspended Defender sitting next to it) and the terrible cargo area intersected by the 8” or so step up to the folded rear seatbacks. If those two things had been solved I think I’d have made the trade. But I already have a built Wrangler 2-door for the mechanical goodness; I wasn’t willing to give up the practicality and luxury of the Defender for my primary family car. But my heart sure wanted to punch yes on that order.

 

I'm with you - I also looked at Grenadier. Then I had a chance to sit in one. Having already tested and driven a Defender - which I immediately liked - I didn't need to drive the Grenadier to appreciate what I'd not be having in terms of comforts. I don't think it yet has satellite NAV - all the GPS maps go through your phone? But what if you don't have your phone? IDK.... I give Grenadier lots of credit for design and roll out. The fact that you can stand on the bumper is a flashback to another time. But I'm not their target customer. I'm not going to challenge the Grenadier in the way it can be driven. If you've owned a Wrangler or two, and want to try something different, well, go check out Grenadier. It's different, and it will cost you about the same as a high trim Bronco. But for me, most of my non-pavement is small rock paths, wooded trails very well traveled so there's no big roots below you, gravel, and sometimes deep mud ruts. If I visit these spots in winter, just add snow. But nothing difficult. The rocks and ruts can damage a tire if you were to go fast, but so long as I have good tires I don't need a solid axle or anything like that. IF JLR had kept the 18" rim offering on at least one Defender trim, I think it would continue to sell. I get it, maybe it was not exceptionally popular. But cutting it out completely? IDK, I think JLR should have fixed the rear caliper to accommodate the 18"s. Toyota figured it out twice - the LC and GX. And Bronco and Grenadier seem to have solved the 18" rim problem. I wish JLR had done that too. I am seeing more and more 22" rim Defenders (or maybe 21" as they drive by quickly). They look ridiculous, as funny as a Wrangler with low profiles or a Porsche Cayenne trying to look cool on KO2s. There's just something about a low profile Defender that misses the mark completely. If a rich person wants a Porsche and also a Wrangler, you can't try to sell them a Wrangler with low profile Pirellis and think you're making a success. That customer will own both - car companies should stick to what they know, and make it correctly. If the off road tire market is at 18" and under, how does an off road SUV not adhere to that standard? Odd choice JLR, odd choice...