Hello Forum Members,

I'm a U.S.-based former owner of an old-school Defender 90. I enjoyed it greatly and certainly did use it off road a lot. I mostly used it on old mining trails, etc., rather than focusing on heavy-duty rock crawling. I have recently warmed to the idea of getting a 2024 model. Here's my current thoughts on a build:
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• Defender 90 S in Tasman Blue with white roof (very similar to my old Arles Blue / white one). I found the P300 motor suited the character of the car pretty well, and I think it would be a bit more economical (gas, maintenance and repairs) than the higher-strung P400.
• Steel wheels with AT's.
• Ebony Windsor extended leather and oyster headliner. The leather is an extravigance, but I don't like the base materials and it does dress up the car nicely. Ebony seating because I think that goes better with blue. Oyster headliner to help keep the interior airy.
• At least the "off road pack."
• Probably the air suspension.
• Maybe either the "advanced off-road" or the "towing pack" (which comes with advanced).
• Clearsight camera.
  

Now, I have a few questions:

First, I'm a little confused about the "Advanced off-road pack." It seems that the main feature of the (normal) "off-road pack" is the inclusion of the rear active differential. I want that! But what does the "advanced off-road pack" provide in terms of hardware, or is it just software improvements connected to the air suspension? How useful or important is it? Can you manually select locked center and rear without it?

The "advanced off-road pack" also necessitates the air suspension. Of course my old Defender had coils, and I never thought that wasn't enough. During my few-minute on-road test drives, I think the coils are a bit bouncier while the air is more wallowy (for lack of a better word). Maybe I though the air was a bit better overall, but the differences aren't huge on-road. The air suspension presumably provides better articulation off-road, which I'd appreciate on those occasions.

So the main question is "Off-road pack" with springs OR off-road pack + air suspension + advanced off-road pack ($2350 extra).

Next, I never expect to tow anything, but I have performed recovery duty on rare occasions, so I'd like to have something in the back (eyes or the hitch), so maybe get it anyway? Thoughts?

Next, the stock AT tires on steel wheels: I want the steelies, that's certain. The stock AT's seem relatively quiet, handle reasonably well on the road, and I guess should be OK for simple dirt roads, but there are a lot of sharp rocks where I usually go, so I'd worry about the side-walls. I only have experience with BFG Ko2's on my old defender. They are really tough, but I'd rate them heavy, noisy and considerably less safe on pavement. Since inevitably 90+ percent of driving will be on-road, I do care about noise and safe all-weather handling. Do you think the stock AT's are usable in our western deserts or would they need to go sooner - or right away - rather than later?

Anything else I should be looking at or thinking about? I prefer keeping things simple and lighter vs. loading up with heavy features (no racks, bars, etc.), but I don't want to miss out on something I should order now.

Thank you very much!

 

I just saw Sarek's informative reply a little below concerning the off-road packages (and a bit about air suspensions). Interesting - and it's causing doubts!

Maybe my normal inclination to keep things as simple as possible should win out? So no to off-road packs, no hitch, no air? It does save money, weight and things to go wrong. And maybe jump straight to sturdier tires?

 

You know, always wanted the Aries Blue, never had one, or even the Marina Blue. Endless stream of the white or recently puked up salad green Defenders or Series. Steel wheels are absolutely the bomb. Just be careful, if you have any kind of performance package, they don't fit over the giant red calipers. Leather has been working out just fine for me in my seemingly endless time on mining roads and in the field doing my research (black shows more dust, I got the brown). I have personally been very well served with air suspension over now 4 vehicles (since 1997). I don't tow anything but my airplane occasionally (have an ATV to that normally). It is just that who ever buys it later may want it and it is a huge financial undertaking to retrofit (guess where you fit a bike rack). The rear tow rings are useful for steps to the top in a pinch. Get the front skid plate, actually comes in handy. Clearsight Camera is a must, my wife despises it, says it's not natural. I almost always have a bunch of survey crap in the back partially blocking the view, that and the spare does not give you much of a clear view anyhow. As for wheels, I use the Cooper AT-3 4S for snow. I spent all summer in the field with the OEM Pirelli Scorpions. I have been working in a heavily volcanic province, no cuts on the sidewalls and excellent performance, MPG and no noise on road. No, they don't look aggressive, but what they actually do is what is important, hold the road. P300/P400 big question. I went for the bigger engine, I live at 7,000' so altitude does degrade performance. Cannot really say anything about the advanced off road pack, I got the X, so it kind of came with everything. Much of which is "ok, right." The other kind of nice thing about Air Suspension is the ability to raise over features and lower for access and trees (parking garages). Frankly you'll always wished you had got one thing and there are things you will get that you never use. Just life I guess.

 

I loved the Arles blue and white top - the distinctiveness always made me smile. The Tasman blue is close to it. It's a bit silly to pay ~$2000 in paint just for the sake of nostalgia, but it's fun.

At first, I wanted the P400, but once I drove the P300, I thought it was good and perhaps a better fit to the character of the vehicle, which definitely isn't a sports car. For a small four, it's very smooth and has good and linear torque. Both the P300 and P400 have lag from zero, but I thought the P300's felt more gradual and natural, while the P400 felt like you had to wait for a switch to turn on (which might be literally true).

Actually, I'd prefer the V8, but no blue with white top and steel wheels! A ridiculous amount of added weight, too. But I'd suggest the P400 for a D110. They are much more stable and somewhat heavier cars and can benefit from the extra power.

I really, really wish I could get the roof without the panoramic glass. Less weight up top, and without the possibility of leaks or malfunctions. But although a picture of a simple roof is shown on the configurator, you can't deselect the glass roof. Heck, I'd pay extra to delete it!

I've never owned a vehicle with air suspension or turbocharging. Besides the D90, I've also owned a Disco-II with springs. It was also surprisingly capable off-road, and I never any suspension problems except for a little sag after many years of heavy use. That's just an opportunity to upgrade!

I think Sarek's posts are getting to me. So maybe springs not air, no off-road packs, jump to better tires immediately. I'm not going to agree with his preference for white, though - haha!

Thanks.

 

Yes Sarek is quite adamant about springs. They are old tech, really old tech, like 1940's tech. They do fail, mine did on my D90ST wrecked havoc on the front shock and the brake lines. Had to drive home with a mean lean and half the brake system. Since you have had older Defenders, you may have noticed they all get that mean lean after a while, which is spring set. Then you have to change them. A regular PIA, which requires special tools and is frankly scary. I have changed exactly two air shocks, which needed a refresh after 14 years on the vehicle, of pretty much continuous off road use. They cost $150 each and replaced both your shock and suspension all at once, takes about 45 minutes with regular hand tools.

Handling, well was it equipped the same, cause if the vehicle was more tricked out that had air shocks, it was heavier and yes will wallow, as will the sprung version with similar stuff onboard. I just have always liked the ability to raise and lower the vehicle. The roads, and I am quite generous with that noun in their context, have tons of obstacles on them, mainly from railroad crews dropping crap on them and the larger rocks that seem to roll in from somewhere. Being able to raise the vehicle does offer a bit of clearance I would not have with springs. I also like it in taller grass, which catalytic converters like to set on fire (get a fire extinguisher).

Totally with you on the glass roof, which I like as much as the giant red stupid looking calipers that make it so steel wheels don't fit. I'm bald! what the heck do I want a glass roof for, make extra payments to my dermatologist? Yes I got way too much tech on mine. I thought it may have been a good idea since it was replacing a Range Rover; fail. Now the car eats batteries 4 times faster than oil and I have to put a solar panel on it when I am out in the field, just so it does not croak from lack of electricity, should I want to open the door once in a while.

Turbocharging has become so common on smaller engines now it is about as common as a water pump. I had the Supercharged Range Rover in the field for 14 years, it never had any issues. I will never get another V8 for a field vehicle, drinks gas. The tank is already too small and the old Defenders so much more so. I hate gas cans. They never seem to work well and modern fuel systems and the spouts do not seem to get along, especially the ones that are California CARB compliant. I have no idea what engineering school that retard got expelled from that designed that POS. I defiantly do not like to cary gas inside the vehicle and try not to make the vehicle look like a Mexican bus on its way to market day in Hermosillo with crap nailed all over it. Just need some kind of off-road chicken cage to round out the overlander look.

 

How did you break a spring? I do my own maintenance and repairs when practical, but changing springs is one of those tasks best done by someone else!

What is your opinion about the off-road packs? Both my old D90 and Disco-II had locking center differentials, which were used semi-frequently, but no other traction control. I believe the new one has a variably-lockable center differential as stock (with no "packs" needed), right? That, combined with brake-based traction control on all wheels should be as good or better than the old single center lock in most situations, I'd guess. Well, leaving out the independent vs. solid-axle question, anyway.

With a tiny tank and horrible MPG, the range of the old D90 was desperately poor. Scary at times! And people think "range anxiety" is only for electric vehicles! My guess is that the new one in P300 form should be about double.

 

I’m going back and forth with the off road pack as well.

Most of the forum will say get the off road pack because you can’t retrofit the e-diff hardware later, and $1,550 it is too little money to pass up. Resale may be easier down the road.

Others will say skip it for simplicity. Spend the money on better tires and maybe the skid plate to expose the front recovery loop.

My amendment date is 2/28. Right now I have it as part of the build.

 

Well going around a corner going downhill, crappy old mining road, side of road had big erosion feature and the wheel hit hard up to the stop. Kind of felt it all the way up my spine and I think my teeth clicked together as well.

I did put an Ashcroft locking rear diff in the D90ST, along with a tiny compressor in the left front wing to make it work. Used it every now and then. Now both this vehicle, the D90X 2022 and my old Range Rover Supercharged had the traction control and the selection of locking diffs, rear, middle front. They both have the 4x4 info page, where you can watch what it is doing with the suspension, what's locking and such. It seems to use them in locking mode far more than I would have imagined. They both where happily engaging and disengaging them all quite a bit. I also have to admit the traction control actually works way better than I ever did, albeit I have used many different tricks over the years to simulate the effects. My favorite is Australian Outback Low Traction Launch (very crusty geologist taught me that in N Queensland back in the late 70's when I was still a stupid geology student). Take out all the spark plugs, put the vehicle in 2nd gear in low. Put the hand crank in and start hand cranking. The old ones would literally walk out of anything. Good exercise as well.

Yes the 4x4 tech does work very well. But it has over several vehicle generations, so not a real revelation there. Do you need all the locking diffs. Probably not. Remember you had an old D90 and it seemed to go everywhere without traction control. It is icing on the cake. The one big tech feature I coveted for years was the camera showing where the wheel is in relation to the ruts in the road. Now that I have it, meh, kind of nauseating to watch. Can be useful now and again.

 

I have 2023 x’s. One did not come with the digital dash. Not a big deal but I didn’t notice for a week. Really buried in the configurator. One of those missing chip deals!

Neither came with the front undershield which I regret (my fault). The standard front design kind of sucks when it comes to the front recovery hook. First beware, the defender recovery is very particular in regards to moving the car without the engine running (putting it in neutral). Second, if recovery includes a front recovery, one needs to remove (with a screw driver) the tow hook cover panel. Not very convenient on or off road. I guess if Land Rover is doing the recovery everything should be OK. However, if it is the local recovery truck, good luck. Rear tow hooks are also an option I suggest you consider (comes standard on some models).

 

Lots of good advice here already.

I went with a P300 110S with coils, 18” steelies, the off road pack (rear e-diff), tow hitch, and front bash plate that exposed the recovery loop. I later paid Ralf Sarek to activate the advanced off road pack and other software features. And I added the rear tow loops, because they couldn’t be ordered as an individual line item for a 110S when I placed my order. I think you can add them now.

I’ve taken it off-road a handful of times at a dedicated off road park in Pennsylvania. Challenging rocky trails, but no slick rock or mud. I’m still on the stock Goodyear Adventures; aired down to ~18 psi, I was able to keep up with the stock Wrangler Rubicons on the “green” trails. The blues and blacks are clearly marked for modified rigs only; even the stock Rubicons stayed off of those. I didn’t have the activated advanced off road software when I went, and honestly didn’t need it. The 4wd system is great without it.

The engine, suspension, 4wd system and tires were all more than enough for the trails. What I needed was underbody protection and more clearance. I took a few hits that I would have preferred to avoid in my expensive new vehicle. So I added the Tuff-Ant rock sliders.

Future investments?

I would love to get Sarek’s coil spring lift, but I’m already too tall for some parking garages. Maybe if I move.

Tuff-Ant is about to release belly skid plates. I’ll be first in line when they do.

And when the stock tires wear out I’ll get better ones. I’m thinking Toyo Open Country AT3 (it snows where I live) in a slightly larger size of 265/70-18, which is known not to rub.

Would air suspension have given me the couple of inches I would have liked? Probably, but I preferred the lower cost and simplicity of coils. You’ve seen the healthy debate. Good arguments on both sides.