I'm know I'm not supposed to yuck another's yum, but I've never been very good at following rules.

Yuck, Yuck, and YUCK....

Thank God they came out with the Defender or Jenn might have wound up with the worst looking of all, the Lexus GX

No thanks.

PS - I've worked in the repair industry too long to believe ANYTHING might go 80k without going back to the dealer. Yeah, it could happen, but everything breaks.

 

Hmmmm... hasn't been my experience. Haven't had a single Porsche back other than for maintenance (not repairs), but to be fair, never racked up 80k miles on one.

MBs have been faultless that long for us, the only two my wife has owned. Well, first one went to 80k, second one is at 30 or so without issue.

Our japanese vehicles over the years have been incredible, and many have made it well past 80k without repairs: Honda/Acuras, Mazdas, and Nissans. Never had a Toyo, strangely. And as much as I wish a Land Cruiser or big Lexus was a viable alternative for me, I couldn't agree with you more: they're all as ugly as stink. What happened to the design aesthetic of so many generations of Land Cruisers that looked great (for what they were)?

Even my wife's 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi made it to 88k before we traded on an ML350, with one repair at 70k: something in the emissions system that was covered under warranty because emissions is 100k, iirc. It also had the dashboard leather start to go wrinkly on it about that time, and Jeep split the replacement-dash cost with us (2200 total, 1100 for us), but that had nothing to do with reliability, per se. And you probably know my feelings about Jeep reliability after my 7-year run with a beloved 2014 Wrangler. Horrible! New engine at 15k, new cat-cons, new clutch, fuel system gas leak of some sort (fumes, not liquid gasoline) that kept triggering the CEL every 500 miles or so. Never did get that repaired as the dealer couldn't find it and wanted to start throwing parts at it. I would just reset the light whenever it lit. Kept a scan tool in the console! Both seatbelt reels went south, and both seatbelt latches as well, out of warranty. the list goes on but I'll stop with these.

Now so far, 8-months and 8000 miles in, the Defender hasn't acted up at all, for which I'm grateful. If it makes it to 16,000 without needing a new engine I'll consider it a win, vs the Wrangler. But I think we'd all agree that in the aggregate, LR products are at or near the bottom of the reliability rankings with a consistency that the actual trucks should envy.

 

I've not seen any actual data on the new Defender reliability, just anecdotal accounts on the internet which are good for seeing what can go wrong but essentially worthless for estimating failure frequency.

 

Hard to believe it will leave behind the well-earned LR reputation of the last 30 years in this country (USA), but hope springs eternal, eh? I honestly didn't know that "LRs are statistically unreliable trucks relative to other brands" was a controversial statement anywhere, but perhaps it is on here.

As for not seeing any data, I think we have a combination of too small a sample size, all sorts of delivery disruptions, and even difficulty obtaining needed repair parts* which would make data-gathering hit-or-miss right now.


*For instance, my windshield received a death-blow from a falling branch back in September, and I couldn't get a windshield for it until December, so it didn't get repaired and wouldn't have been reflected in any data-gathering done during that period. Of course, windshields breaking when hit aren't reliability issues, but the illustration holds and could be applied to other parts that are severely delayed and would count toward reliability statistics.

 

But bear in mind, I bought mine in spite of this because:

1) The Defender looks best-in-class by a huge margin
2) Its offroad chops seem to be better than competitors (albeit by a smaller margin, and only after addressing the dreadful 20" wheel/tire problem if you want the big motor)
3) It and the Gelandewagen seem to be the only logical step up for a Wrangler owner who's looking to dial back the rock-climbing and dial up the on-road comfort and cargo capacity while still looking like you damn well mean business.
4) I have other vehicles to drive should a lengthy stay in the shop become necessary
5) While I'd hate to absorb it, the huge (pre-Covid) Land Rover depreciation hit won't drastically change our family financial picture, and
6) did I mention it's the best looking truck by a huge margin?
7) the old NAS Defenders held their value very well, and still do, and there's a chance the 663 will outperform the rest of the LR/RR stable financially even when the crazy supply-chain issues are resolved.

 

Just to be clear - I'm not talking about previous LR products - just the new Defender. And I'm not suggesting your comment was controversial, just asking if there are data to support it. This is a new design built in a completely new factory, and so I don't think it necessarily follows that the reliability will be similar to previous models. I certainly hope it isn't.

The current problems with sourcing parts is really completely different, with supply chain issues affecting most manufacturers.

 

Perhaps this will be the case. Like you, I ardently hope so. Perhaps the Slovakians will prove to be the most precise of car assemblers. Perhaps the new plant will prove the exception to the usual rule that "it takes a few years to work the bugs out of anything as complex as an auto assembly plant." And perhaps the LR engineers -- both the ones tasked with designing the new truck and the other ones charged with designing a new assembly plant -- will break from the mold of past LR engineers and get it right in both undertakings. I'm crossing my fingers for sure!

Agreed -- I wasn't saying the parts delays are indicative of any failing particular to LR, only that they would contribute to inaccurate data collection during this very strange time in modern automotive history. In other words, the absence of definitive bad reliability data that you pointed to can be explained by the tiny sample size of delivered vehicles and the parts delays, and doesn't necessarily point to a heightened reliability of the product.

Cheers!

 

Meh, a few anecdotes don't data make.

Everything breaks sometimes.

Some of the worst vehicles made today make 100k+ miles easily, the real differences are seen in 200k+ and 300k+.

Many vehicles reputations are over and understated based on anecdotes, myths, confirmation bias etc.

I no longer worry about these things. I'm just gonna enjoy my vehicles:

Defender, Wrangler, Harley, Ducati, Moto Guzzis etc.

 

if you count the beach, the number will be high. I dont see whole lot of offroading, but i do see a lot of surfing...

 

if you count the beach, the number will be high. I dont see whole lot of offroading, but i do see a lot of surfing...