I have only read good reviews on the new “Defender”,anyway after a half an hour test drive I picked up my 110 SE last June.I thought this would be a vehicle I would grow into ,like my Puma 90 that I sold to buy the new one.With every day I regret buying this sheep in wolfs clothing so I tried to sell it back to the main stealer but they offered me £15k less than I paid.

I’ve had LR’s for the last fifteen years and would have classed myself a LR man,but this one falls more into a proper Discovery category ,it’s not by any means a Defender,not even close as it’s way to sophisticated and delicate.
Anyway thought I’d vent and post an alternative view .

 

Well, I'm sure you'll endear yourself by doing it. Hope it was cathartic.

You know what they say about opinions and ******** right?

Honestly, I've never understood the person who comes to an online enthusiasts group for the sole purpose of pissing in someone else's cornflakes.

That's not to say every post needs to be fanboy crap. There's certainly room for legitimate observations and discussions about capability, and limits of such.

Objective stuff is great, since it can give perspective to a subjective opinion by giving it a frame of reference.

Like comparisons and contrasts between similar or dissimilar vehicles will go a long way to avoiding princess and the pea syndrome.

For instance I have no frame of reference for LR vehicles, especially the original Defender, so most of my comparisons are to other SUVs and 4x4s, especially Jeeps.

I'll never be taking our D110 over the wilds of Namibia or the Sahara, and heck living on the east coast it's unlikely I'll ever ask it to try any challenging trails in Utah or Colorado, but when we take it out to the beach house (meaning across the beach and sugar sands) it is the perfect answer to what WE wanted/needed. I don't really care what it is called, I just enjoy the capability, which is on-par with a Wrangler to our needs, just not nearly as rough around the edges (bonus for us).

Anyway, good luck and have fun finding your bliss.

 

I do not think anyone would attempt to argue that the New Defender should be fairly compared to an Old style Defender (except for the name). This is not to imply that the Old Defender is better. It is different -- and it is obsolete as a new vehicle, just like many vehicles we love from the 1980s and before.

Yes, I agree the new Defender it is on a direct evolutionary path from the Discovery 4, but without the truck frame and with much more effective 4WD geometries and systems. The Discovery name is now reserved for the D5 (and its middle-luxury, family hauler off-shoots) -- a market area which JLR definitely needs to grow.

I look at the situation as the D2, LR3, LR4 evolution away from carrying the Discovery mission of BOTH off-road and family on-road middle luxury travel to spawning two very different, modern vehicles -- one for off-road and one for on.

I love the 4WD system and geometry of the New Defender .... and most everything else about the LR4 -- so much that I now have two LR4s -- one for light duty offroad and farm work, and one to tow the ponies long distances. My P300 110 is for work in the farm mud and in the muddy mountains.

I hope you find some enjoyment, in any case !

 

Not intending to **** on anyone’s cornflakes or be an arsehole ,just wanted to put my view,maybe it’s just me ( wouldn’t be the first time.😂🤓
This Defender does look the nuts ,even tho it attracts every bit of **** on the road,hard to believe mudflats weren’t included really.I’m just saying if you want an off-road defender,this ain’t it.
This is a great forum ,I couldn’t remember my forum name (?) but have followed it for any problems I’ve had with previous Lrs ,mainly my Puma.

 

Well, that's fair enough I guess, but I'd still like to hear the type of stuff you're trying to do that it is not. I ask for my own education, as I've not found the limits yet and it would be helpful to know if I am ever approaching them someday! You might save me (and others here) some trouble or potential embarrassment.

 

Don’t you think it’s too delicate to off road Kev?We live on a dirt road which is bad enough,I dare to think of the possible body damage proper off-roading could potentially cause ,not to mention horrendously expensive too.
Its an ok road vehicle ,if a little underpowered ,oh and mine tramlines badly ( Pirelli scorpions) .
Do you have the Michelin’s?
Mines going back to the MD next week to be looked at ,it would be nice to know if yours rides / performs ok.👍

Michael

 

Do I take it to mean that you haven't gotten it stuck or exceeded its capabilities yet? (again, just trying to understand percpectives).

Delicate? Not sure what you think it delicate but I don't know that I find anything on it more or less delicate than our Wrangler, or anything else on the market today. I mean there are plastic components that shouldn't be bashed, but that is true on everything today.

As I've mentioned I'm not a rock crawler, and don't anticipate I will be anytime soon, but I've read accounts of these things doing some crawling in Moab so I'm sure it is capable.

Our primary usages are beach/dunes/forest roads etc. Mostly soft sugar sand, light water crossings, etc.



Early on I had my wife follow me through some Wharton forest trails just to get used to the capabilities.



We've already spent a week plus running back and forth on the beach and dunes. I have a thread elsewhere in which I compare/contrast it to my lightly modified JKU Wrangler (locking rear diff, 2" triple-rate coil spring lift, fox racing shocks, all terrain tires) vs the stock D110 with active-diff but street oriented 19" Pirelli tires. I was truly impressed with how well it did, not only matching my Wrangler's performance in the sand/dunes but actually surpassing it in many areas. It walked over stuff that I've seen swallow pickups and other 4x4's or the like and made it effortless. I might put a more aggressive tire on it next time, but I don't need to for our use.



I literally just got back from a trip to CO where I had the pleasure of driving a new JLU Rubicon w/ the 2.0 Turbo. Again, no rock crawling (the rental company would not have appreciated it) but I didn't leave with the impression there was much the D wouldn't do that the R would (unless we start talking stuff I'm really not inclined to do anyway).

As for speed, well, hell, our P400 just walks away from other traffic too, even when I'm being gentle with the throttle. I noticed that really well on the trip down DelMarVa the other week, lots of repetitive stop and go 60-70 mph again stuff. I mean it's not a sports car or sports bike by any means, but it gets up and goes better than a 2.5 ton SUV ought to and I've not noticed it tramlining at all. Actually its on-road handling has been great, but again I'm Jeep guy so maybe my bar is set somewhat low by default and it's been a while since I've had a sporting car with which to compare it. Then again I get most of my sporting use from motorcycles so I'm not a stranger to tossing things around or expecting to hold a line.

I dunno, maybe something is wrong with yours, or maybe it's an issue of perception.

Either way, sorry to hear yours isn't performing as expected. Hope you sort it or find your bliss....

 

I think the nature of the topic requires we clarify the definition of "proper off-roading". If it means spinning wheels and bouncy tires, relying heavily on momentum to drive the vehicle into an out-of-control condition and in so doing summount an obstacle with velocity (which is what we often see in modified Jeep videos -- and yes, it looks like fun !), then the New Defender is not ideal.

If we instead look at how a vehicle which can carry or tow a big load with a purpose in a reliable and capable manner off of tarmac (similar to the Land Cruiser), then the New Defender will be exceptionally capable. I wanted to type Gwagon, but honestly the payload of that vehicle is so low that it cannot compete with the new Defender.

I think folks who are used to the prior technology may not desire to drive the New Defender in the manner to maximize its capabilities. There are critical points of use in driving the new Defender which are counter-intuitive to the old-school, solid-axle, on-off differential, non-electronic, driving technique. There is no wrong or right, but there are differences.

 

You're not wrong at all, but I seem to remember reading an article about a stunt driver jumping one or more new Defenders for a scene in the next upcoming Bond movie. They were expecting to all but destroy the vehicle with each jump and for the stunt driver to take the punishment. I believe the article said the thing took the punishment repeatedly and kept control and functioning. They were somewhere between pleased and astounded.

Let me try my google-fu:

Not the articles I was thinking of, but

short article and mention of the stunt team

https://www.wheels.ca/news/james-bon...lm-rehearsals/

a short article and video

https://www.motor1.com/news/399102/l...nd-commercial/


Doesn't seem that delicate to me!

 

The LR moto, As slow as possible, as fast as necessary. That is how I drive my Defender, not too worried about dinging it up. You also lessen the chance of breaking things too.