Hello from Raleigh!

Let me just start off by saying that I have a new Bronco on order. However, my number in line (171) is well outside my dealer's allotment (100-ish) for the rest of the year. I'm not getting it any time soon.

This made my eyes wander.

I have always had a soft spot for the new Defender since it came out but there have always been two big, big fundamental things that have kept me from considering it, until now. You can't get it in red, and you can't get it with a stick. I ordered my Bronco in Rapid Red with the manual transmission. However, having seen and sat in a Bronco in-person now, I'm concerned that it's not enough for my uses. After renting a 4-door Wrangler to drive on the beach (thanks Enterprise!), the significant other and I found out quickly that the interior space of the Wrangler was just not enough to have a comfortable weekend away from the house with our two pit bulls. The interior size of the Bronco is very similar to the Wrangler, with some more shoulder room. That, and the interior seemed remarkably poorly-assembled. At this point I'm tired of cheap interiors in my supposedly nice (for me) cars. I started looking at Defenders a little more and more, but shrugged them off for various reasons: no manual, no red, spotty LR reliability, price, and so-on.

Yesterday, with nothing to do, I went and checked one out. Amazingly, my dealer a couple of miles from my house had one on the lot, but it was a dealer transfer unit. I wasn't allowed to drive it but we did sit in it and play around inside. Initial impressions were fantastic. I loved the room, I loved the capability, I love how well-engineered everything felt, and I loved the design and materials inside and out. This got me thinking. Everything else I and my SO own is a manual (she has a '20 STi), having one automatic car around could be nice. Every review stated how comfortable the car is and given everything else I have, comfort would be nice. A quiet cabin would be nice. An interior that is more functional than just about anything on sale today would be nice. Having a Defender would be really nice.

There are two big things about the Defender that has the Bronco beat, and they're big. Space and towing capacity. Not that I'd push the Defender that close to its 7700 LB towing limit, but holy hell what am I supposed to do with the 3300 LB capacity of my ordered Bronco? The space should be pretty self-explanatory.

I've been looking for aftermarket accessories and have noticed that is seems to be a little... dry. There doesn't seem to be much out there and the stuff that is out there seems to be overpriced ($2100 for some tube bar rock sliders? FOH). Winch mounting capability seems to be limited to what LR offers over the counter. Maybe because it's new? Maybe because the production volume hasn't been that high? IDK...

So, if you could please, can you guys weigh-in on anything I might be missing or am incorrect on? I want to hear how ownership is for you guys. There's a huge debate in my brain and I would like to resolve it. I have my eyes on a D110S on steelies in Pangea Green. Link to the B&P is in the signature.

 

although capabilities are similar they are much different cars. the fit and finish is going to be way superior on the Defender. the price in itself will tell you that

beside its small glitches and quirks i love my defender. i’m not a die hard rover fan and this is my first. when people ask about the car the most east and simple response is “ it’s a really nice truck”

i would of picked up a Raptor but i’m not a truck guy. so you really get the best of both worlds with the defender.

not sure if this helps but i am more than happy with it

only grumble is the keyless go is the worst ever.

 

I'm not sure I saw a clear question, but let's see if I can relate.

About half the vehicles my wife and I have owned have been manuals, including my current Wrangler Unlimited.

I enjoy and arguably prefer manuals, but truthfully an auto makes more sense whether you're talking Wrangler, Bronco, or Defender.

These aren't sports cars. If you ever do tow with it backing up is MUCH easier with an auto. You mentioned beach driving, not sure if that is your primary off-road use, but I think an auto really shines there too.

The steelies look good, but I don't think I could give up the P400 for them. The motor is downright sublime and has the go when you want it.

We recently completed the first real long trip (8 hours each way) in our 110 and the interior is a really nice place to be that long. I didn't realize until driving long into the night how nice the interior lights were. There's very nice ambient lighting through the cabin at night.

On room there is certainly enough to spread out, but as a family the four of us are fine even packing my Wrangler for a week on the beach so we might not be the best of comparison for that.

As I've noted elsewhere the ClearSight rear view mirror helps with that because you can pack cargo to the ceiling if you want and it doesn't effect your rear vision.

I love my Wrangler and it's not going anywhere. I suspect the Bronco would be fun too. But neither holds a candle to the D110 for daily use except those perfect days you might want the top off the other two.

 

a few thoughts:

the motor selection matters... I and others are very happy with my P300 4 cyl. And the same is true for almost all who have a P400 6 cyl.

the Nature of the I6 is much more sporty (zoom zoom) and is necessary for full capacity towing

the 4 cyl is shockingly capable with a flat torque curve and what is described to have an unexpected smoothness and is integrated with the transmission logic in all situations.

the V8 is a limited run and the effective use of it is TBD. The acceleration and towing ease are likely to be off the charts.

to tow a horse trailer 7500 lbs is the market standard. So, all three Land rover larger chassis (defender, RR and discovery 5) achieve that ratings.

I tow horses with an LR4 with a 5 liter V8 and it does fine. The most I will tow with the P300 is 5000 lbs. The consensus is that P400 is necessary to happily tow to the limit.

the accessories are coming... slowly. There is a metal bumper for an external winch coming from Lucky 8 and other armor and accessories coming from a few other suppliers. The hidden winch from JLR is like the rest of the vehicle - comparatively complicated and stylish.

because of the complex design of the vehicle, there is not an expectation by defender owners that the vehicle will enable the level of owner customization of a jeep, bronco or pick up truck. Nor do the suppliers likely see an accessory demand potential similar to a Toyota or Jeep product.

even so, for the obvious items like roof racks, solid accessories are available.

everything with a JLR product is expensive compared to a Jeep or Bronco — be it service or accessories. The suitable comparisons are MB and BMW. Just the nature of the marketplace

One more point, the 4WD logic of the Defender is very advanced and much more capable than vehicles which may accommodate a manual transmission.

the logic inherent in the software and technical hardware of the new defender (and new SUV jeeps) cannot be made to tolerate the inconsistency of a manual transmission.

it’s kind of the same story as new F1 cars and their “ for sale to the public” inspired vehicles which use the same approach — the driver operating the clutch is obsolete.

Hard to accept I know —- there is an irreplaceable joy in manually clutching your way around the track and the beach

 

I've had a 2-door JK Wrangler for 7 years, built the crap out of it. Spent as much on it as I paid for it. It's a beast in the rocks out west.

But I'm changing my mission -- I want solid off-road capability but don't need the huge articulation and 37" tires I've got currently. I'm more interested in overlanding and sleeping in or next to the truck. And living in Atlanta, I have a lot of tarmac between me and the interesting dirt roads I love, and that will be so much nicer in the Defender. Mine is sitting at the port in England right now. Can't wait!

 

Get the Defender and test it out.. When all the problems and glitches drive you crazy, trade it for the Bronco.

 

It's a Ford, so you know it's good. No Siree, no glitches or problems with that industry standard.

 

Thanks for the input. The SO would really like to take this next vehicle on trips, so the nicer interior and larger capacity are the two big draws for that.

Beach driving is probably going to take up the bulk of the off-road driving, but we also want to take it places in the mountains to go camping and whatnot. If I have the capability, I will put it to use.

As far as the P400 goes, spec'd out the way I want it a P400 takes this car from the "I can afford it" area to the dangerous "I think I can swing it" area and I'm just not comfortable paying an extra $12k for it.

I don't use the interior rear-view camera (CDL holder), so ClearSight really doesn't matter to me.

And back to auto vs. manual. Driving a manual is ingrained into my DNA at this point. I have never owned an automatic car and I'm worried about my long-term happiness with the vehicle when I don't have that direct connection or control over what it's doing. I put 30k miles a year on my auto work truck, so the last thing I want to look at is a PRNDL when I get home. I've driven sticks and autos in just about every situation on- and off-road except for rock-crawling and while I know for a fact that an auto is easier to manage, I always had more fun in the manual. Partly because of the challenge, but mainly because I was acting dumb lol.

 

Nice rig, love the wheels!

That's the part that sucks about living out east. If we want to do any real overlanding we have to drive halfway across the country first. Wouldn't leave Raleigh for anything, though.

 

I hear ya. My Wrangler is 6M, because I love manuals and have always had at least one for the last 16 years. But I have driven it off-road a lot, and I’ve also rented similarly built 2- and 4-door Wranglers from Twisted Jeeps in Moab, even done so on the same trip (long story: Jeep dropped a valve seat down into No. 6 piston and bent a con-rod, with 15,000 miles/1 year old. I was halfway through a 3-week trip.) Anyway, there’s no question automatic is easier for rock crawling, significantly so. I’d still get a manual again, though, unless I was literally buying/building a dedicated rock crawler that wouldn’t get used anywhere else.

So yeah, if they offered a 6M in the Defender I’d have gotten it; but I made my peace with the fact they don’t and that I still love the Defender, and nothing that comes with a manual really meets my new use-case, so there you go. At least I have a couple of other cars with sticks so it’s not like I’ll have to do without.