Yeah it definitely costs more, but considering how much we just paid for these things it's a pretty negligible. If you need the height to fit oversize tires that rub at standard height then the rods make more sense as you'll always need to be lifted. But even in that case, the LLAMS controller has two raised height settings which could still be useful. Personally I like the idea of being at stock height as much as possible, as you have to assume that is better for longevity of the air system. That might not be a good assumption, it may have no real impact on longevity at all...

A negative point either way you go is that it can void your air suspension warranty. I did actually ask my dealer about this, as they had a display car with johnson rods. They said even though they are dealer installed they can still void the air suspension warranty (depending on what actually fails) as they are still a 3rd party modification. That said you should be able to get away with swapping back to the stock rods before sending it in so the dealer can't weasel out of fixing issues. The controller does have a ghost mode for programming/service, but if the dealer needs to get access to the control module the wiring harness is pretty obvious, but it is fairly easy to just remove the harness. Just my 2 cents, nothing wrong with the rods!

 

Many thanks to each of you on this thread, along with BRW110 and ADVAW8S for their 18" tire reports, for contributing to my next steps.

For this year, I am decided to execute a two step strategy for using the rods and LT tire (that possibly being a larger one). My goal is to: not lose much in low noise, to maintain reasonable ride quality, to get a tougher tire, to get more grip on the evil red clay mud we have around these parts, and to gain two inches in ground clearance. I am not especially concerned with damaging the air suspension or warranty. I think the industry has figured that one out, reasonably (but I still would not take an air suspension vehicle to the deep wilds of the world -- maybe I will change out the air to springs in 10 years for that trip !).

My biggest learning in studying all the notes, photos and supplier advice is that geometry seems to require 1 1/2 inches of lift to add one full inch tire of tire diameter; and that you cannot go larger than one extra inch -- unless one desires to start cutting bumpers and fenders or lifting the body above the current axle mountings (not for me this year -- no thank you). If I then add one inch of larger tire diameter to a 1 1/2 inch lift, I will have my two extra inches of ground clearance.

Fearing the impact of the lift rods on the ride quality of the Defender, I am avoiding the 2 inch lift, and ordering the Johnson 1 1/2" ($$ instead of $ ... uggh) rods and will run them with the stock Goodyear off-road tires for a while and see how the rods impact the truck's driveability on-road. If they are markedly worse, I will reserve their use only for off-road expeditions, run the Goodyears for another 10K miles, then replace them with 32" LT 275/65 R18s - same brands as noted below.

If the 1 1/2" rods run smoothly, I will leave them on, put another 10K miles on the stock Goodyear off-road tires, and replace them with 33" LT265/70 R18 tires -- either Wildpeak A/T3Ws or a Niitro Ridge Grapplers. Studying the reviews, they score higher than others I learned about on quiet, strong, effective off-road ability.

It is interesting that the Niitro website notes the combined AT and Mud Ridge Grappler tire as being more quiet than their pure A/T Terra Grappler G2 tire (not sure why), as well as being better off-road. The penalty is a small decrease in ride comfort. I am a little uncertain about the wisdom of selecting a mixed AT/Mud tire. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I have less aggressive Wildpeak AT tires on one of my LR4s and am entirely happy with them on road. We reserve that vehicle for on-road use, so have no knowledge regarding how to compare the A/T3Ws against the Niitros. Again, comments appreciated.

Best to all. Enjoy!

 

The issue with rods is not damaging the air suspension, but shortening the lifespan of the CVs and suspension bushings. By using rods, the suspension and drivetrain are operating at angles that were not designed for by the JLR engineers. No one has put enough miles on a Defender to say when such a failure will occur, but it's safe to say using rods all the time will lead to a failure sooner than leaving the geometry stock. Personally, after many years of driving lifted Toyotas and dealing with sub par handling, I'm excited to have a suspension lift available only when I need it off road, vs all the time. Seems like people have been able to fit 32.5" tires fine without rods. I plan to keep my truck for the long term, so I'm not stressing about an additional .5 inch. With that said I think the Johnson Rods 1.5" lift looks fantastic!

 

Very educational note -- thank you. I really appreciate it.

 

LOL, I had a big dissertation about “RT” tires, the class that fits in between AT and MT. Don’t know how I blew it away. The gist of it was Toyo has the Open Country RT, Kenda has the Klever RT601 (see below, in size 35x10.5 on my former Jeep), and Nitto has a set also, the Ridge Grappler, as already alluded to. Nitto has 4 different offroad tires, the Terra Grappler AT, the Mud Grappler MT, and in between are the Ridge Grappler (equivalent of the Toyo Open Country) and the Trail Grappler (conventional MT).

In order of aggressiveness the Nitto Grapplers are: Terra, Ridge, Trail and Mud.

I think anyone who wants a little more aggressive tread than an AT but wants to retain as smooth and quiet a ride as possible should look to the Open Country, Klever RT, and Ridge Grappler.

 

Amongst other downsides of using rods, don’t you lose some articulation and ride comfort at all heights since the bags are extended? Although I have very limited off road experience, it seems like many rollovers you see on YouTube involve lifted vehicles. Just makes me very wary of putting any kind of lift on this kind of vehicle.

 

That's true most rolled off road vehicles seem to be lifted but that's also a bit of bias at play, as most off road enthusiasts (aka the folks who tackle hard offroad obstacles on video) lift their vehicles prior to doing challenging things with greater potential for rollovers.

As for ride comfort, the rod lift seems inexpensive enough to try out and see if you like it to me, discard if you don't prior to buying those bigger tires

 

Thanks NOGABIKER for your heads up on Rugged terrain, also called hybrid tires.

I studied up on them and found a lot of consensus that the Niitro ridge grappler is the most quiet available. To provide me a tougher tire, I am going to go with an LT type e version.

I ordered the 1.5 inch rods, and think I will use them only on extended off road trips, so I am next going to clarify with those on the NO LiFT thread which 18” sizes work best unlifted. my p300 110 S is my daily driver, so many of the miles will be on the interstate.

I have a question someone may be able to answer:

What’s the purpose of the bolted ring over the lip of the tire I am seeing on many of the wheels running the more aggressive tires? Is this functional or just decoration? Maybe the wheel lip is shaped differently than the JLR OEM one, thereby requiring the ring?

Thanks !! Enjoy !

 

Either an actual beadlock wheel or (more often) a regular wheel with a beadlock-looking ring that serves the sole purpose of looking like a beadlock.

Most street tires get dicey below 14-ish psi, if you subject them to a heavy side load, like traveling along a hillside on solid rock. This can roll the tire’s bead off, since it’s only held on by air pressure. So a beadlock clamps the tire’s bead between the rim and that ring, making it impossible for the bead to break and let the air out of the tire.




I never used them (they’re all ugly and I like a pretty wheel), and you can see in this picture that my spare’s bead has rolled off and let all the air out.

 

Very interesting ! Thanks for sharing. I agree they are not exceptionally pretty.

I won't be using one -- at least not until I lose a bunch of beads.

Enjoy !