Hi,

I'm brand new to these forums and I'm looking for some sturdy advice on a Land Rover Defender 90.

I'm 17, living in West Yorkshire and I passed my driving test in January. I am looking for my first car and I can't stand all these new "curvy" cars that most of my urban bread mates are into. The kind of work that I do, and the area that I live in really warrants a Land Rover and so I can't get over the strong desire to get one! My income isn't fansastic and I am still at school but I have worked hard and saved up enough to buy an old defender (pref 1989-1990 2.5TD), but my main worry is running it. Here's a list of my worries, and I'd be glad to hear from anyone with some help:

- Will it run well on bio-diesel?
- What mpg can I expect to see from a 1989 2.5TD?
- How much does it cost on average to fill the tank with standard diesel?
- Will I have to pay upto £400 tax (new 4x4 law)
- Would I be able to insure it as a classic car / conservational vehicle (NFU aren't interested in helping me )
- How reliable are the parts / engine / chassis?

That's pretty much everything that is just holding me back from swapping cash for my first land rover, and I don't really think that it is going to stop me, but your responses may just make all the difference.

Thanks in advance for any help

-Pos

 

Before you run any car on bio-diesel you need to make absolutely sure there's no rubber components in the fuel system - that includes all hoses and any seals - as bio rots them very quickly. Land Rover don't warrant their engines or use with anything other than a 5% mix of bio to 95% DERV, but that's inline with every other car manufacturer and only really applies to new engines anyway. From what I've heard, common rail high pressure diesels don't like it too much, but the older engines are fine with it. Unfortunately, as with anything untried and tested, you'd have to 'suck it and see'. Plenty of people I've spoken to are running theirs on Rix biodiesel without any problems - available up North from Rix filling stations, sadly not available (yet?) down South.

The TD engine isn't as economical as the slightly later Tdi engine, expect high 20's to low 30's IF (please note the big 'if') the engine is maintained properly and the injection pump is correctly timed - if not then you can expect anything down to high teens to low 20's. Economy depends a lot on driving style - thrash it down the motorway at 70+ mph and, largely thanks to the aerodynamics of two housebricks mating, you'll ge crappy mileage. Treat it nicely and respect the fact that it's designed to cruise at around 55 to 60 mph at most, and you'll stay a lot richer.

If you search about on the net you'll hear some horror stories about the TD engine. This is largely due to previous owners of them seeing them as an 'agricultural vehicle' and no servicing them properly. Change the oil every 5 to 6 thousand miles (without fail!), keep the air and fule filters clean and provided the last owner did the same and you should have no problems. When you switch the engine off, leave it idling for around 60 seconds at a standstill before turning the key - this allows the turbo to spin down from anything up to 150,000 rpm while it still has an oil feed from the engine - always a good idea.

90 models have different sized fuel tanks depending on whether it's a station wagon or a van. Station wagons have a 55 litre fuel tank - never trust the fuel guage on a rover, my average fill up is around £40 for 45 litres of diesel. The van (i.e no windows in the sides) has a 65 litre tank.

At the moment the new tax regulations are for vehicles manufactured after 1st of May 2001 - so your road tax will be £175pa

Aged 17, your insurance on a rover will be huge. They're not generally worried about the expense of replacing your car, that's cheap by comparison with, say, the brand new Porsche Cayenne turbo that you run into the back of - a rover does a lot of damage when it hits something and, as yet, you have no driving record for them to go on. Your best bet would be to get one of your parents to insure it with you as a named driver - caution there though, as a named driver you're not supposed to be the main user of the vehicle (although that's impossible for them to find out in the main) it would also be advisable for you to register the car in the name of the person who is going to be insuring it. I appreciate this isn't suitable for every person or for every family - provided you get on ok with your folks it will be the cheapest way of doing it.

Reliability of Land Rover bits is pretty good really, provided you look after them. Very regular servicing of the mechanical bits and theres a lot of them, careful cleaning of the chassis and underside of the car if you use it off road, particularly during winter when they salt the roads all make for a reliable car.

Choose carefully - there are some complete dogs out there which will cost you thousands to put right, even though they look like the steal of the century for the asking price. Don't buy the first one you see (unless you're absolutely sure it has a good chassis, bulkhead, engine and driveline) and definitely don't buy one because it's already got 'all the gear' on it - retrofitting chequer plate, big wheels, a snorkel and a lift kit will cost you hundreds but replacing a bulkhead or a chassis that's rusted through will cost you thousands!

Have a realistic budget for buying the car and running it - £2,000 will buy you a decent, well looked after Ninety CSW. It might get you a very tatty 90 Tdi pick up - go for the decent Ninety with a TD engine rather than the tatty Tdi every time. Station wagons tend to get an easier life than pickups or hardtops.

The first thing you should then do is give it a really good service. It's not difficult to do yourself, just a bit mucky and you'll need to dispose of quite a lot of old oil afterwards. Genuine part prices for the filters you'll need is about £40, you'll need 6 litres of oil for the engine and some for top ups so buy 2 x 5 litres - typically about £30. Front and rear diffs need EPX80/90 GL4 or better, shop around and you can get this for as little as £2.50 a litre. You'll need about 4 litres for the diffs, another 3 for the transfer box and about a litre each for the swivel hubs so a total of 11 litres or £25 if you can find a decent supplier. If you buy the same stuff from Halfords it will cost you between £7 and £9 a litre - big ouch! No matter what you hear, the gearbox in a Ninety uses ATF (automatic transmission fluid) NOT hypoid gear oil. The gearbox oil is pumped internally, unlike a traditional manual box and EPX oils are way too thick for the pump. You'll need a little over 2 litres of ATF which is going to cost you around £12. That's over a hundred quid on oil and filters as soon as you pick it up - budget for it

It's not all doom and gloom - there are some good ones out there, but I can't stress enough how carefully you need to check them before you decide or you'll be buying a money pit you just won't be able to afford to put right.

Cheers and good luck hunting,

 

Thanks for the advice Adz,

I have just been down to Jake Wrights in Burley, and they had a nice old defender from 1986, but it's immaculate. The chassis hasn't got a spot of rust, in fact, it's still got all its black paint on it, and the engine ran smooth as well. They were just MOT'ing it, and they said that they could have it running to me for £4,000. It kind of feels a touch steep, but there's not a hole, any rot or corrosion in sight. I'm just going to have to play it safe and see if I can get the money together before I really make my mind up.

Thanks again
-Pos

 

An '86 with 'all its black paint on it' will most likely have been repainted There's not neccesarily anything wrong with that, but I'd seriously question it if the dealer tells you it's 'original'. One reason to paint/underseal a Land Rover is to hide how badly off the chassis is.

£4k does seem steep - I paid £3k for a '93 L plate 200Tdi 90 (private sale) and had to spend approx £1.2k fixing bits, total of £4.2k for a better, on paper at least, car than the '86 would be.

If you're going to go as high as £4k then a 200 Tdi is well within your sights and you can probably get something quite decent.

For £2k, unless you want a rats nest of problems, you're firmly stuck in the pre 1990 TD area.

In either event, any Land Rover needs fettling and looking after to keep it in good shape - a lot more work than £4k's worth of pocket rocket Corsa/Saxo - but then that's half the charm

Cheers,

 

Thanks again

I had a really good look at the chassis, and there were no bubbles or bulges which would obviously be covering rust, but like you said, you just don't know. It genuinely looked well cared for any well maintained, there was only one part of the engine that had rust on it too.

With regards to the money, well, I don't really want to spend £4,000 and I have just found out that I can't really get hold of it either

Thanks again, and I'll keep working to find something just as good for half the price.

Cheers, all the best

-Pos