ACE "pops"?
#1
09-21-2020, 11:27 AM
ACE "pops"?
All you super awesome ACE guys out there, I have a request and a weird problem.
Request:
Does anyone have any documentation that clearly shows where the front ACE pipes go? I'm wondering if mine got put on wrong before the truck was mine. Some kind of exploded view from the ACE block under the passenger side -> forward would be great. Everything I've read says that if it was hooked up wrong I should have lines exploding from pressure and stuff but I just can't find enough knowledge one way or the other. I can't find anything detailed enough to show which outlet on the block each pipe hooks up to.
Weird problem:
My ACE "pops", is that normal? Like when I'm driving I can hear it pop like it's releasing built-up pressure, maybe every 45 seconds or so. Nothing strange other than that happens, it still seems to function normally as far as I can tell. It hasn't worked for years, I just got it fixed a month ago or so. I had taken out the pump and everything until I was ready to fix. The "fix" was just replacing the seals in the ACE block and straightening the plate that held the pipes into the block, previous owner shoved some rubber hose under there and tightened the hell out of it trying to fix the leak looks like.
Lost.
Request:
Does anyone have any documentation that clearly shows where the front ACE pipes go? I'm wondering if mine got put on wrong before the truck was mine. Some kind of exploded view from the ACE block under the passenger side -> forward would be great. Everything I've read says that if it was hooked up wrong I should have lines exploding from pressure and stuff but I just can't find enough knowledge one way or the other. I can't find anything detailed enough to show which outlet on the block each pipe hooks up to.
Weird problem:
My ACE "pops", is that normal? Like when I'm driving I can hear it pop like it's releasing built-up pressure, maybe every 45 seconds or so. Nothing strange other than that happens, it still seems to function normally as far as I can tell. It hasn't worked for years, I just got it fixed a month ago or so. I had taken out the pump and everything until I was ready to fix. The "fix" was just replacing the seals in the ACE block and straightening the plate that held the pipes into the block, previous owner shoved some rubber hose under there and tightened the hell out of it trying to fix the leak looks like.
Lost.
#2
09-21-2020, 03:46 PM
Pro Wrench
Two ideas & a TSB:
1) Is this the self-test noise? I don't know if the noise is a "pop" but mine -- with ACE -- does make a little "self-test" noise. It's not a bad noise, or overly loud, or concerning, just a little odd and I questioned it and did research when I first got the truck. Maybe that what you are referring to? Mine seems to do it every 25-30 seconds with regularity, when the truck is idling, and hot. I read somewhere online a few months ago something like... "LR used to have lots of customer complaints about the ACE self test noises on Disco's, and they spent some engineering time on the newer ACE models after the D2 eliminating this regular self-test noise." (I have since had to RRS S/C, a 2008 and a 2010 that had ACE-like systems and neither made a recurring regular self-test noise btw)
Also, ACE was for some reason not available for most of the 2003 model year.
No idea if the above is true. But I stopped worrying about it on mine.
2). Maybe you have a pipe contacting body or frame somewhere that could sound like a "pop". NOTE -- on my truck someone forgot to re-mount the ACE pipe bracket on the right hand (Passenger) front shock tower. Down on the shock tower at the very bottom on the inside of the engine compartment. Maybe that bracket is popping in and out on the stud it mounts to..
3) Check this TSB out. Sorry I don't have images just all the copy.
No: 60/02/99/NAS
Ref:*Issue: 2*
Date: 06/25/99
Ace Noise and Vibration Reduction
AFFECTED VEHICLE RANGE:
DISCOVERY Series II (LT) All
* indicates updated information
SITUATION:
EXCESSIVE NOISE FROM ACE SYSTEM
A customer may complain of noise or vibration especially at low engine rpm. The ACE system may be the source of this disturbance. The noise may be more apparent during cornering, or when the system is cold.
RESOLUTION:
INSPECT ACE PIPEWORK FOR CLEARANCE
If any ACE pipework is crimped or damaged, or if it is in contact with any other part, carefully correct the interference allowing a minimum of 5-10 mm (0.200 - 0.400 inch) clearance. At no point should any ACE pipework cross or contact other piping or vehicle components except at specific mounting locations. It may also be necessary to remove, adjust and refit any locating clips (see diagram) so that the rubber isolator holes are not distorted by the pipe.
PARTS INFORMATION:
No Parts Required
WARRANTY CLAIMS:
60.60.89/29 Time 0.70 hrs.
Isolate ACE Plumbing To Reduce Noise
Fault Code: K
Normal warranty policy and procedures apply
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
PREPARATION
1. Place vehicle on flat level surface.
2. Verify that gear selector is in PARK, handbrake is engaged, and ignition is off.
INSPECTION
CAUTION: Corrections must be made by hand to avoid small kinks and radii, which could increase the noise/vibration problem.
NOTE: The pipes in this system are labeled A, B, P, and T at the valve block and on the lines by using plastic tags. Gentle correction of the pipes is permitted by hand in most areas except the black sleeved "A" and "B " pipes on the actuators. A clearance of 5 - 10 mm (0.200 - 0.400 inch) should be maintained around all pipework.
NOTE: Other factors that could influence ACE system operation include:
^ Small stones trapped between the valve block and the chassis
^ The fastening of other vehicle components to ACE pipework
^ Incorrect torque on ACE pump pulley bolts
1. Follow both the high pressure and return hoses from the ACE pump (Figure 1 Position 3) and reservoir down toward the front chassis cross-member.
2. Inspect for possible interference with power steering lines.
3. Correct routing by hand where necessary.
4.* Verify that the ACE pump return line is correctly positioned and secured by the pipe support bracket and clip (Figure 2, Ref. 1).
5. Inspect for possible interference between the left and right oil cooler tube ends and the inner fender area on either side (Figure 2, Ref. 2).
CAUTION: If adjustment of the cooler tube ends is necessary, exercise extreme care. Alter the direction of the tube gently and gradually, only as much as required.
6. If contact is determined, carefully position the oil cooler tube ends away from the inner fender area (Figure 2, Ref. 2).*
7. Verify that the rubber isolator holes in the locating 'P' clips are not distorted.
8. Adjust any locating clips affected by the pipe alignment.
9.* Verify that the negative battery cable eyelet is oriented as shown in Figure 3, Ref. 1.
10. Verify that the negative battery cable runs in a smooth arc over the ACE jump hoses not forcing them into the inner fender panel flange, as this can cause chafing.*
11. Raise the vehicle.
12. Inspect the flexible high-pressure hose below the lower crimp (Figure 1 Position 2) toward the rigid (green) section.
NOTE: Light contact between the sponge sleeving of the flexible hose, and the radiator cowl is permitted, however all hose crimp ends should be isolated.
13. Correct routing by hand where necessary.
14. Verify that the rubber isolator holes in the locating "P" clips have not been distorted.
15. Adjust any locating clips affected by the pipe reworking.
16. Inspect the two-way "P" clip (Figure 1 Position 4) for interference.
NOTE: It is acceptable if the protected hoses from the front actuator contact the plastic shield.
17. Remove the three screws supporting the plastic shield forward of the right front wheel well.
18. Move the plastic shield aside.
19. Check for interference at the right front corner of the chassis, either with the chassis itself, or with other vehicle components.
20. Verify that the ground cable is routed from the base of the shock tower, inboard of all four pipes, onto the inner fender.
21.* Verify that the main body to chassis wiring harness is not trapped between ACE pipes and the RF inner fender panel (Figure 4, Ref. 1).
22. If the harness is trapped, perform the following:
^ Manipulate the fender panel outward, 10 - 15 mm, to free the trapped harness.
^ Carefully feed down any slack in the harness from the engine bay.
^ Route the harness in a non-interfering path.*
23. Examine the integrity and configuration of the 4-way isolators (Figure 1, Positions 7 & 8)
24.* Adjust positions 4 and 8 isolator as follows (Figure 5):
^ Remove outer nut from cushion stud.
^ Slide isolator bracket off of outer cushion stud.
^ Slacken inner cushion stud and then torque to 7 Nm (62 lbf.in).
^ Install isolator bracket and nut.
^ Torque outer nut to 7 Nm (62 lbf.in).
^ Verify isolator "P" clip is not in contact with the chassis frame at the bottom of the clip.*
25. Check for interference at the diagonal sections of pipe on either side of the shock tower.
26. Verify that there is no transfer of ACE system vibration to the chassis through the electrical harness, or by contact with the inner tender.
27. Inspect the remaining length of pipe routing over the chassis outrigger (Figure 1), looking for direct contact with the chassis, body or wiring harness.
28. Correct routing manually where necessary.
29. Verify that the rubber isolator holes in the locating "P" clips (Figure 1 Position 9) have not been distorted.
30. Adjust any locating clips affected by the pipe reworking.
31. Inspect ACE tubing to the rear actuator for contact with the frame, electrical harnesses or other components.
32. Correct routing by hand for proper clearance as required.
TORQUE PUMP BOLTS
1. Loosen all three of the pump bolts (Figure 5, References A & B).
2. Torque upper pair of pump bolts to 25 Nm (18.5 lbf. ft.) (Figure 6, Reference A).
3. Torque single lower pump bolt to 25 Nm (18.5 lbf. ft.) (Figure 6, Reference B).
4. Loosen the three pulley securing bolts (Figure 7).
5. Torque each pulley bolt to 25 Nm (18.5 lbf. ft.).
6. Evaluate ACE system noise level.
1) Is this the self-test noise? I don't know if the noise is a "pop" but mine -- with ACE -- does make a little "self-test" noise. It's not a bad noise, or overly loud, or concerning, just a little odd and I questioned it and did research when I first got the truck. Maybe that what you are referring to? Mine seems to do it every 25-30 seconds with regularity, when the truck is idling, and hot. I read somewhere online a few months ago something like... "LR used to have lots of customer complaints about the ACE self test noises on Disco's, and they spent some engineering time on the newer ACE models after the D2 eliminating this regular self-test noise." (I have since had to RRS S/C, a 2008 and a 2010 that had ACE-like systems and neither made a recurring regular self-test noise btw)
Also, ACE was for some reason not available for most of the 2003 model year.
No idea if the above is true. But I stopped worrying about it on mine.
2). Maybe you have a pipe contacting body or frame somewhere that could sound like a "pop". NOTE -- on my truck someone forgot to re-mount the ACE pipe bracket on the right hand (Passenger) front shock tower. Down on the shock tower at the very bottom on the inside of the engine compartment. Maybe that bracket is popping in and out on the stud it mounts to..
3) Check this TSB out. Sorry I don't have images just all the copy.
No: 60/02/99/NAS
Ref:*Issue: 2*
Date: 06/25/99
Ace Noise and Vibration Reduction
AFFECTED VEHICLE RANGE:
DISCOVERY Series II (LT) All
* indicates updated information
SITUATION:
EXCESSIVE NOISE FROM ACE SYSTEM
A customer may complain of noise or vibration especially at low engine rpm. The ACE system may be the source of this disturbance. The noise may be more apparent during cornering, or when the system is cold.
RESOLUTION:
INSPECT ACE PIPEWORK FOR CLEARANCE
If any ACE pipework is crimped or damaged, or if it is in contact with any other part, carefully correct the interference allowing a minimum of 5-10 mm (0.200 - 0.400 inch) clearance. At no point should any ACE pipework cross or contact other piping or vehicle components except at specific mounting locations. It may also be necessary to remove, adjust and refit any locating clips (see diagram) so that the rubber isolator holes are not distorted by the pipe.
PARTS INFORMATION:
No Parts Required
WARRANTY CLAIMS:
60.60.89/29 Time 0.70 hrs.
Isolate ACE Plumbing To Reduce Noise
Fault Code: K
Normal warranty policy and procedures apply
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
PREPARATION
1. Place vehicle on flat level surface.
2. Verify that gear selector is in PARK, handbrake is engaged, and ignition is off.
INSPECTION
CAUTION: Corrections must be made by hand to avoid small kinks and radii, which could increase the noise/vibration problem.
NOTE: The pipes in this system are labeled A, B, P, and T at the valve block and on the lines by using plastic tags. Gentle correction of the pipes is permitted by hand in most areas except the black sleeved "A" and "B " pipes on the actuators. A clearance of 5 - 10 mm (0.200 - 0.400 inch) should be maintained around all pipework.
NOTE: Other factors that could influence ACE system operation include:
^ Small stones trapped between the valve block and the chassis
^ The fastening of other vehicle components to ACE pipework
^ Incorrect torque on ACE pump pulley bolts
1. Follow both the high pressure and return hoses from the ACE pump (Figure 1 Position 3) and reservoir down toward the front chassis cross-member.
2. Inspect for possible interference with power steering lines.
3. Correct routing by hand where necessary.
4.* Verify that the ACE pump return line is correctly positioned and secured by the pipe support bracket and clip (Figure 2, Ref. 1).
5. Inspect for possible interference between the left and right oil cooler tube ends and the inner fender area on either side (Figure 2, Ref. 2).
CAUTION: If adjustment of the cooler tube ends is necessary, exercise extreme care. Alter the direction of the tube gently and gradually, only as much as required.
6. If contact is determined, carefully position the oil cooler tube ends away from the inner fender area (Figure 2, Ref. 2).*
7. Verify that the rubber isolator holes in the locating 'P' clips are not distorted.
8. Adjust any locating clips affected by the pipe alignment.
9.* Verify that the negative battery cable eyelet is oriented as shown in Figure 3, Ref. 1.
10. Verify that the negative battery cable runs in a smooth arc over the ACE jump hoses not forcing them into the inner fender panel flange, as this can cause chafing.*
11. Raise the vehicle.
12. Inspect the flexible high-pressure hose below the lower crimp (Figure 1 Position 2) toward the rigid (green) section.
NOTE: Light contact between the sponge sleeving of the flexible hose, and the radiator cowl is permitted, however all hose crimp ends should be isolated.
13. Correct routing by hand where necessary.
14. Verify that the rubber isolator holes in the locating "P" clips have not been distorted.
15. Adjust any locating clips affected by the pipe reworking.
16. Inspect the two-way "P" clip (Figure 1 Position 4) for interference.
NOTE: It is acceptable if the protected hoses from the front actuator contact the plastic shield.
17. Remove the three screws supporting the plastic shield forward of the right front wheel well.
18. Move the plastic shield aside.
19. Check for interference at the right front corner of the chassis, either with the chassis itself, or with other vehicle components.
20. Verify that the ground cable is routed from the base of the shock tower, inboard of all four pipes, onto the inner fender.
21.* Verify that the main body to chassis wiring harness is not trapped between ACE pipes and the RF inner fender panel (Figure 4, Ref. 1).
22. If the harness is trapped, perform the following:
^ Manipulate the fender panel outward, 10 - 15 mm, to free the trapped harness.
^ Carefully feed down any slack in the harness from the engine bay.
^ Route the harness in a non-interfering path.*
23. Examine the integrity and configuration of the 4-way isolators (Figure 1, Positions 7 & 8)
24.* Adjust positions 4 and 8 isolator as follows (Figure 5):
^ Remove outer nut from cushion stud.
^ Slide isolator bracket off of outer cushion stud.
^ Slacken inner cushion stud and then torque to 7 Nm (62 lbf.in).
^ Install isolator bracket and nut.
^ Torque outer nut to 7 Nm (62 lbf.in).
^ Verify isolator "P" clip is not in contact with the chassis frame at the bottom of the clip.*
25. Check for interference at the diagonal sections of pipe on either side of the shock tower.
26. Verify that there is no transfer of ACE system vibration to the chassis through the electrical harness, or by contact with the inner tender.
27. Inspect the remaining length of pipe routing over the chassis outrigger (Figure 1), looking for direct contact with the chassis, body or wiring harness.
28. Correct routing manually where necessary.
29. Verify that the rubber isolator holes in the locating "P" clips (Figure 1 Position 9) have not been distorted.
30. Adjust any locating clips affected by the pipe reworking.
31. Inspect ACE tubing to the rear actuator for contact with the frame, electrical harnesses or other components.
32. Correct routing by hand for proper clearance as required.
TORQUE PUMP BOLTS
1. Loosen all three of the pump bolts (Figure 5, References A & B).
2. Torque upper pair of pump bolts to 25 Nm (18.5 lbf. ft.) (Figure 6, Reference A).
3. Torque single lower pump bolt to 25 Nm (18.5 lbf. ft.) (Figure 6, Reference B).
4. Loosen the three pulley securing bolts (Figure 7).
5. Torque each pulley bolt to 25 Nm (18.5 lbf. ft.).
6. Evaluate ACE system noise level.
#3
09-21-2020, 04:09 PM
Oh man, that is pretty much the best information I could have received about this. Yes my pipes are not mounted back yet with the rubber holder thing near the shock tower, they are making contact with the body or frame. You are right, likely those are making the pop sound much, much louder than I remember when I picked up the truck. I couldn't get the bracket back on, the pipes are bent or otherwise didn't line up which also got me questioning if they were installed in their proper locations on the block. After reading this, I'm sure it's nothing more than the self test noise being amplified by pipes touching things they shouldn't be touching.
Thanks nashvegas! This is exactly the information I needed.
Thanks nashvegas! This is exactly the information I needed.
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