Door tumbler broken - Locked Out with No Fob
#11
11-22-2021 | 12:14 PM
Overlanding
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 16
Likes: 11
I’m a locksmith, and you should try one thing first: lubricate the lock, then insert the key (if it won’t seat jiggle up and down gently until it’s all the way in) then carefully jiggle the key up and down (like a fast vibration) while applying tension, turning in the direction it normally turns. While jiggling the key and turning, slowly back it out as carefully as possible. It will eventually kick the wafers into place and turn over. What happens is these tumbler locks’ brass wafers wear, and don’t line up properly. Putting the key in like
normal and trying to turn makes it seem like it’s broken, when really the wafers are off by .001” and a little jiggle picking will make it turn over.
I very rarely saw “broken” wafers, just worn out and easily turned over. Try this before wasting money on air wedges, slim Jim’s or anything else people will refer you to. Also, any locksmith who “won’t touch” a rover isn’t a real locksmith.
normal and trying to turn makes it seem like it’s broken, when really the wafers are off by .001” and a little jiggle picking will make it turn over.
I very rarely saw “broken” wafers, just worn out and easily turned over. Try this before wasting money on air wedges, slim Jim’s or anything else people will refer you to. Also, any locksmith who “won’t touch” a rover isn’t a real locksmith.
Last edited by Classic2disco; 11-22-2021 at 12:23 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Classic2disco:
mollusc (11-23-2021),
Richard Gallant (11-22-2021)
#12
11-22-2021 | 01:01 PM
Camel Trophy
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,806
Likes: 909
From: Charlotte
Does not turn at all. I think one of the wafers is broken inside the tumbler. Sometimes the key won't seat all the way. Sometimes it feels like it's seated but the pins won't turn.
Once I get into the car, I'm planning on following this excellent guide to clean out, and re-install new wafers into the tumbler.
Once I get into the car, I'm planning on following this excellent guide to clean out, and re-install new wafers into the tumbler.
If other methods fail to get you into the truck, I'd break the door glass before I'd drill out anything. And, conveniently, I have a spare DII drivers door glass I'd be happy to send you for the cost of shipping.
Please let us know how this goes for you.
The following users liked this post:
uhoh_elmo (11-23-2021)
#13
11-22-2021 | 01:19 PM
Mudding
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 139
Likes: 32
I’m a locksmith, and you should try one thing first: lubricate the lock, then insert the key (if it won’t seat jiggle up and down gently until it’s all the way in) then carefully jiggle the key up and down (like a fast vibration) while applying tension, turning in the direction it normally turns. While jiggling the key and turning, slowly back it out as carefully as possible. It will eventually kick the wafers into place and turn over. What happens is these tumbler locks’ brass wafers wear, and don’t line up properly. Putting the key in like
normal and trying to turn makes it seem like it’s broken, when really the wafers are off by .001” and a little jiggle picking will make it turn over.
I very rarely saw “broken” wafers, just worn out and easily turned over. Try this before wasting money on air wedges, slim Jim’s or anything else people will refer you to. Also, any locksmith who “won’t touch” a rover isn’t a real locksmith.
normal and trying to turn makes it seem like it’s broken, when really the wafers are off by .001” and a little jiggle picking will make it turn over.
I very rarely saw “broken” wafers, just worn out and easily turned over. Try this before wasting money on air wedges, slim Jim’s or anything else people will refer you to. Also, any locksmith who “won’t touch” a rover isn’t a real locksmith.
Do you/locksmiths have a preferred lube for that type of stuff? I've always used that black dry graphite spray on mine.
#14
11-22-2021 | 01:25 PM
I wouldn't consider myself 100% pure locksmith as I work on financial institution locks (vaults/combos/safe deposit locks/teller locks), but I have always been told to use Triflow lube (even used it back in my mountain biking days).
Rover wise the black top door frame will move pretty good if the lock cylinder is a no go.
Rover wise the black top door frame will move pretty good if the lock cylinder is a no go.
#15
11-22-2021 | 01:33 PM
Overlanding
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 16
Likes: 11
Tri flow is the way to go. Stay away from wd40, it will gum up the cylinder.
Really 90% of the time people can’t get a cylinder to turn, it can be jiggled open working the key back and forth while turning. If not that, then I would approach it in this order: air wedge and long reach tool to the unlock button; slim Jim; linkage tool in the door.. wouldn’t break the glass, and I wouldn’t drill the door lock. Those should have a sidebar tumbler, and locating the sidebar to drill it out is something I wouldn’t try unless You’ve done it before.
Really 90% of the time people can’t get a cylinder to turn, it can be jiggled open working the key back and forth while turning. If not that, then I would approach it in this order: air wedge and long reach tool to the unlock button; slim Jim; linkage tool in the door.. wouldn’t break the glass, and I wouldn’t drill the door lock. Those should have a sidebar tumbler, and locating the sidebar to drill it out is something I wouldn’t try unless You’ve done it before.
#16
11-22-2021 | 08:36 PM
Camel Trophy
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,806
Likes: 909
From: Charlotte
https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...e2/#post622286
I appreciate you said you very rarely saw broken wafers, but it happened with my truck. And, since you are a locksmith, is "retainer wafer" the correct term?
The following users liked this post:
uhoh_elmo (11-23-2021)
#17
11-22-2021 | 10:17 PM
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 159
From: MEMPHIS, TN
Soo.. I've found the past threads of people with the same issue, but I'm stuck and not sure how to proceed. I bought my disco used and never had a fob. It seems like the door tumbler has crapped out on me and I can't get in. I can pay a locksmith but I've seen threads on here where they can't get it unlocked. Don't really want to spend the money to find out. There are two possible DIY resolutions that I'm considering to get in. (Once I'm in, I can take car of the tumbler and fob so I'm not worries about that).
Option 1 is to drill out the hole in the rear door behind the license plate. Luckily for me, I have the rear door panel off because I am wiring up some accessories and a rear view camera. From what I can see through the window and having spent a lot of time back there recently, if I can widen the hole just a bit, I can push up on the door latch and unlock it that way. Unfortunately, I have my rear view camera wire running through that hole, so I would have to cut it and resolder. Annoying but doable.
Option 2? The tape trick. I don't know if this works for mechanical windows only. I also don't know if this has the chance to break something. But I've see videos like this one, where people put a bunch of packing tape on a window and yank it down. Has anyone ever tried this on a disco? Does anyone think it would work? I'd prefer this route if it was safe.
Option 3 is to drill out the lock itself. People have described doing this in the threads I've found. I want to avoid this if possible since I can get a wafer kit and fix the lock after I get in. Could always get a door handle from a pick-n-pull but I don't know if there are electronics / the BCU to deal with.
Also, good thing to find out now. Once I get into the disco, I assume the alarms will start going off. If I get the key in the ignition it should stop right? Nothing is wrong with the key so I'm assuming it'll turn on and drive like normal.
Option 1 is to drill out the hole in the rear door behind the license plate. Luckily for me, I have the rear door panel off because I am wiring up some accessories and a rear view camera. From what I can see through the window and having spent a lot of time back there recently, if I can widen the hole just a bit, I can push up on the door latch and unlock it that way. Unfortunately, I have my rear view camera wire running through that hole, so I would have to cut it and resolder. Annoying but doable.
Option 2? The tape trick. I don't know if this works for mechanical windows only. I also don't know if this has the chance to break something. But I've see videos like this one, where people put a bunch of packing tape on a window and yank it down. Has anyone ever tried this on a disco? Does anyone think it would work? I'd prefer this route if it was safe.
Option 3 is to drill out the lock itself. People have described doing this in the threads I've found. I want to avoid this if possible since I can get a wafer kit and fix the lock after I get in. Could always get a door handle from a pick-n-pull but I don't know if there are electronics / the BCU to deal with.
Also, good thing to find out now. Once I get into the disco, I assume the alarms will start going off. If I get the key in the ignition it should stop right? Nothing is wrong with the key so I'm assuming it'll turn on and drive like normal.
“I had to do the exact same thing. I had 4 locksmiths come out and none of them could get in. I finally ordered my own air wedge and went to Home Dept and got a 6 ft. long metal rod. I bent the rod and pumped the wedge and hit the unlock button on the dash. No lie, it took me 10 seconds.”
Little more detail. I took the metal rod and put a 90 degree bend about 3” from the end and wrapped duct tape sticky side out on that end. On the other end will will call the handle end I looped it so I could get more leverage once the duct tape end was on the button. The duct tape does a couple things; keeps you from scratching up the dash and it helps keep the rod on the unlock button on the dash when you start applying pressure.
I seriously had it unlocked in 10 seconds.
Last edited by Frank4; 11-22-2021 at 10:27 PM.
The following users liked this post:
uhoh_elmo (11-23-2021)
#18
11-23-2021 | 05:39 AM
Thread Starter
|
Drifting
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 46
Likes: 9
From: PNW
I’m a locksmith, and you should try one thing first: lubricate the lock, then insert the key (if it won’t seat jiggle up and down gently until it’s all the way in) then carefully jiggle the key up and down (like a fast vibration) while applying tension, turning in the direction it normally turns. While jiggling the key and turning, slowly back it out as carefully as possible. It will eventually kick the wafers into place and turn over. What happens is these tumbler locks’ brass wafers wear, and don’t line up properly. Putting the key in like
normal and trying to turn makes it seem like it’s broken, when really the wafers are off by .001” and a little jiggle picking will make it turn over.
I very rarely saw “broken” wafers, just worn out and easily turned over. Try this before wasting money on air wedges, slim Jim’s or anything else people will refer you to. Also, any locksmith who “won’t touch” a rover isn’t a real locksmith.
normal and trying to turn makes it seem like it’s broken, when really the wafers are off by .001” and a little jiggle picking will make it turn over.
I very rarely saw “broken” wafers, just worn out and easily turned over. Try this before wasting money on air wedges, slim Jim’s or anything else people will refer you to. Also, any locksmith who “won’t touch” a rover isn’t a real locksmith.
#19
11-23-2021 | 07:50 AM
4wd High
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 9
Likes: 1
Love it
Been here jumped another car and the negative came off… have to pull the handle from across on the passenger side… made a jimmy bar from 1/4”” steel rod. Once open alarm will go off. Have to pull off driver side door handle to get to the actuator and can turn to turn off alarm. Reinstall everything and Atlantic British your key fob. Get it programmed from a trusted Land Rover mechanic and yeah key fobs are everything on these things
#20
11-23-2021 | 03:32 PM
Thread Starter
|
Drifting
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 46
Likes: 9
From: PNW
I was able to get in! I used Frank4's method, so thanks for that! I wouldn't have thought to hit the door lock button. I was able to form a little hook and get under the button and pull up to unlock the door. Luckily I don't have the cup tray installed so I could do that. Now for the door handle!
The following users liked this post:
Frank4 (11-23-2021)