Land Rover Forums - Land Rover Enthusiast Forum - Rebuilt engine=no start and f2 fuse popping

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that would make sense as a theft deterrent. WOuld be dumb to let a crook get in and crank it but not supply fuel. Lovely assistant has promised she will assist me this evening, so will post up results of those tests this evening. Can't thank you guys enough for your help and patience.

NO spark and NO Fuel

So tonight it is clear I am not getting spark or fuel. I put a plug from each bank against the block and there is no spark at all. Its also clear I am not getting any fuel. When turning the key the fuel pump is not getting any volts. I can jump the relay and the fuel pump kicks on. when the key is turned I can feel relay #9 kick on. However the fuel pump relay does not kick on. fuse #1 and fuse #2 both get 12 volts when the key is turned on. So main relay is coming on but ECM is not grounding the fuel pump circuit, is that right? So I am getting no spark and no fuel, but not immobilized. I am at a loss. Anyone know the next thing to test ?

Well, you ARE getting fuel, when the pump is forced to run. So that is part of the battle. I was waiting on your post and will post back in a few minutes.

Seems like could be in your work one of these might be an issue:

OK.

So ECM is satisfied that some things look good enough for it to activate main relay when key is turned on. That's what puts power on fuse 1 and 2. This also confirms inertia switch is OK, or main relay could not energize.

Starter relay is energizing, and turning over happens. That means we are free from immobilization.

Fuel pump relay is not being switched on by ECM. Also, ignition coils not firing.

Ignition coils get + battery from fuse 14 at the inside passenger compartment fuse box. That fuse is driven by ignition relay, which is in the passenger compartment fuse box. If that relay is operating, you will have + battery at fuse 14.

The ECM could have a plug loose, and hopefully they can't fit in more than one socket, ECM may have lost memory if battery was off: from RAVE -

Connector 1 (C0634):

This connector contains 9 pins and is used primarily for ECM power input and earth. The ECM

requires a permanent battery supply, if this permanent feed is lost i.e. the battery discharges or is disconnected the
ECM will lose its adapted values and its Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC). These adapted values are a vital part of
the engine management's rolling adaptive strategy. Without an adaptive strategy, driveability, performance, emission
control, and fuel consumption are adversely affected. The ECM can be damaged by high voltage inputs, so care must

be taken when removing and replacing the ECM.

The ECM depends of the Crank Position Sensor - plug could be off, or wrong spacer used (were both engines on vehicles with same type transmission?

From Rave:

If the CKP sensor fails while the engine is running the engine will suddenly stall, this is because the CKP sensor has
no backup strategy. If this happens the ECM will produce a fault code that it can store in its memory. If the engine is
not running when the CKP sensor fails, the vehicle will crank but will be unlikely to start, and no fault code will be

generated. In this instance the MIL lamp will remain illuminated and the tachometer will fail to read.

Does tach come up at all? Did it work when engine was running? Do you have CEL and any codes?

The fuel pump relay - if it does not energize, no pump. But relay could be bad, have you swapped with another? Also, relay won't run all the time when trying to start - fom RAVE:

The fuel pump relay is located in the engine compartment fuse box. It is a 4 pin normally open relay. Input from the
ECM allows the fuel pump relay to control the electrical input to the fuel pump, regulating the fuel supply to the fuel
injectors. When the ignition is switched on and the engine is cranked, the fuel pump relay is activated by the ECM,
allowing the fuel system to be pressurised to 3.5 bar (52 lbf.in

2). The ECM then deactivates the relay until the engine

has started.
If the fuel pump runs, but the fuel pressure is out of limits, adaptive fuel faults will be stored.

Input/Output
The input value for the relay windings is battery voltage, the input value for the switching contacts comes from fuse
10 in the engine compartment fuse box. The output control of the switching contacts is direct to the fuel pump motor,
and the relay windings are controlled by pin number 18 of connector C0635 of the ECM.
At ignition 'on' (position II) the fuel pump relay contacts remain open until the ECM supplies an earth path for the relay
windings via pin number 18 of connector C0635 of the ECM. At this point, the relay windings are energised, drawing
the relay contacts closed. This allows voltage from fuse 10 in the passenger compartment fuse box to pass directly
to the fuel pump.
The fuel pump relay can fail the following ways or supply incorrect signal:
l

Relay drive open circuit.

Short circuit to vehicle earth.

Short circuit to vehicle supply.

Component failure.

In the event of a fuel pump relay failure any of the following symptoms may be observed:

Engine stalls or will not start.

No fuel pressure at the fuel injectors.

A fusible link may be "open" from an overload. Ones with screws can be metered easily. These are on the side of the underhood fuse block opposite the relays. These are just really big fuses. All plugs seated under the under hood fuse box?

A plug could be off of a sensor, like the crank sensor.

I have swapped around relays for the fuel relay and that hasn't changed anything. Service engine soon light stays on whole time. Tach worked before when engine ran, but it doesn't move while cranking now. Not sure if that is normal or not. Anyone care to pull their fuel pump relay and crank it over and see if the tach moves at all? Only code I found was for fuel pump relay, but I cleared it. I just checked again, and there are no codes stored, but SES light comes on soon as you turn the key and stays on whole time key is turned. I don't recall any spacers for the Crank sensor. it was the same block, just new crank. I read somwhere about having the wrong air gap for the crank sensor, and I briefly wondered if the new crank moved the flywheel a bit and messed up the crank sensor, but I can't figure out any way to adjust the gap or measure it. I felt the crank relay in the passenger compartment while turning the key and it is definitely clicking on.

I had to work late tonight. Checked this thread first, and read though all other posts because I read everything on this forum: knowledge gained...

As I have to work at the ass-crack of dawn tomorrow, all I was able to do tonight was to verify that the tach doesn't move until the engine is started.

The crank position sensor is spaced differently on a manual tranny vs an automatic per RAVE. Now that you have verified that main relay is energizing we know that ECU is running, has power, etc. But the ECU also enables the fuel pump relay, and it may not do that if it can't figure out to make sparks, based on timing.

Attached is three pages on the crank sensor. Bad thought - if it says spacer is needed, one size or the other, and yours is installed with no spacer - would that make sensor tip so close to flywheel that it was sheared off?

I could not find many sensors listed as number 1 fault condition was no crank, other than crank sensor. While you are at it, also check the cam sensor. It is frequently confused with crank sensor, as it is on front of engine near main crank pulley. They are two different animals.

The RAVE says the cam position sensor picks up 4 slots machined in the gear wheel. Not sure, but if that translates from the "Rover English" to the main pulley, it would be bad for said pulley to have been mounted reversed.... but this should not have changed from a week or so ago. Sensor may have been bumped out of alignment, etc. And you may have more skinned wires, just not in places that draw enough current to blow a fuse.

I am the biggest idiot in the world

Ok I feel like an absolute moron but in a good way. I was reading last night on Discoweb and saw numerous people who lost spark and fuel at the same time just like me and it was CkPS. But I replaced mine so that couldn't be it. Just out of frustration I re-read the how-to on installing it and I noticed the spacers go on the BACK SIDE of the sensor and fill the gap between the sensor and the nuts. I installed the spacers between the block and sensor and the nuts on the back side of the sensor. I took the motor apart so long ago I must not have noticed how it was put together. When I put the old one on I didn't check anything it just seemed logical to put spacers between the block, I assumed the spacers keep the tip of the sensor from getting sheared off by the flywheel. WHen I replaced it I didn't think about it either, the spacers stayed where they were adn the sensor slipped on and the nuts onthe back side. SO I got up early this morning, put it the way it should be and I fired it right up. Couldn't believe it. I broke the cam in by revving it from 2000 to 2500 rpm for 25 minutes. Motor sounds good, has good oil pressure etc. I can't thank all you guys for the help. It feels soooooo good to finally hear this thing fire. Moral of the story I guess is when you see footprints look for horses not zebras. And I made the mistake of not double checking my own work. Buzz suggested that, but frustration kept me from thinking of obvious things first. I am out to put the rear interior back together, dash back together, front driveshaft etc. Two months since we bought it and I am FINALLY gonna be able to drive it. Can't tell you how good it feels. Thanks again guys

To celebrate, take the lovely assiatant out for dinner a long way from any auto parts store....

And no, you are a wise man who has listened to the mistakes of others. And RAVE stands for Rovers Are Very Educational....

I can't thank Buzz and Morpheus enough. If you guys are ever in SW MO drinks are on me. I am sure I will need this forum again, but hopefully for less frustrating issues. For the record my ses light was on the hole time I had the CkPS installed wrong, and went away the second it started and ran