Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

My 2000 SD has been devouring regular unleaded at 15 MPG for the last 60,000 miles with no performance issues whatsoever like pinging, starting, power loss or anything else.

I maintain it religiously but I drive it hard and it runs as good as the 2004 SE7, that I bought 3 weeks ago.

Doing the math on savings:
[ul][*]60,000 miles / 15 MPG = 4,000 Gallons used.[*]4,000 Gallons X 30 cents per gallon difference = 1,200 dollars in my pocket. [/ul]
It is hard to imagine 4,000 gallons used or 28,000 lbs (for the folks that fly aircraft).

Has anyone used regular unleaded for thousands of miles. Any problems?

Contemplating placing the SE7 on the same diet. Any recommendations?



[IMG]local://upfiles/12736/5849729999CF45469313BF37B29CDFD5.jpg[/IMG]

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

when looking to buy my 04' i read of several people who after long periods of time having large amounts of carbon build up from regular fuel.

secondary benefits are the cleaner longer burn mean better mileage and more efficient power made.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

i have used mid grade gas for 15k miles and now i need 4 new o2 sensors plus like 9mph so i will continue using premium its only like 10 cents of a diffrence

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Factor this in.

You get better MPG with Premium. You will save more money with premium.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

i can run 87 in my ferrari and my ducati,,,

does not mean that i should,,,,

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

I read that fast and thought you said you run 87 in your ferrari and ducati. I was about to blow a fuse.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

hahahhahahhaha that would blow a few around here

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

There's 2 things you didn't factor though. You're getting 15 mpg on 87. If you ran 91 or preferably 93 you'd probably get about 18 mpg. And also you have to remember that these engines aren't designed to run on regular, they wear prematurely, don't put out as much power, and gunk up very quickly when running regular, so our all ready high maintenance is increased by using premium. Believe me, I ran 87 for a year because I just didn't know better, and noticed a HUGE difference in fuel economy and power immediately, and now I'm really starting to notice the difference in maintenance.

Bottom line is, the manual says use premium, use premium.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Hi all,
So what about the fact that our Rovers should be world travelers? What would happen when we drive down to Central and South America and run on poor gas for 20K miles? Could that cause problems with the electronics? What could I do to prevent those problems? Octane boosters? I wouldn't want to drive with my trunk full of Octane boosters either... And I definitely don't want to prove the people right that told me I should have bought a Land Cruiser instead!;);)
Cheers!

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

step 1: buy a TDI rover
step 2: drive to central or south america ;)

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Yeah, diesels are pretty much everywhere but here in the US.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

This is great information and it is absolutely correct that the Disco manual states premium fuel. Technically speaking, the Discovery 1 & 2 are blessed with a low stress, low HP, push rod engine that was designed in the early sixties by General Motors Buick division. This is what makes it a great engine, no timing belt to worry about, no variable valve timing, just a solid all around power plant. Maintain it right and you can get 200 K Miles easily.

The owners manual in my M5 6 speed (4.9 L V8, 394 HP /6800 RPM) states premium fuel and BMW is very serious about it. You try to use 87 octane and it cuts back your RPM at the first sign of pinging. The M5 is even picky about the premium brand, BP or Texaco.

The new Range Rover uses the same BMW V8 (4.4 L) and some are supercharged, in that application you must use premium, absolutely.

For the disco 4.0 L, I am not convinced yet. May be the 4.6 L is different.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

I use premium because of the following:

1. Too many problems documented by others who chose low octaine gas.
2. I plan to keep my Disco for many years and am investing in many off road mods.
3. I did not buy this car for gas mileage, I bought it for off roading and a save on road drive.
4. My wife's paycheck is based on the oil companies making a profit so my buying premium is a good investment!

And if gas ever gets just too high in cost I will buy a hybrid or Smart Car for around town driving and save my Disco for the fun stuff!

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Lots of fuel containers. ;)

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

I currently run premium in mine because when I bought it was the day gas became real scarce around these parts, and all I could find for like three weeks was regular. As soon as premium was available again, I noticed a huge difference. I am still contemplating fabbing and installing an HHO generator. Just haven't quite ironed out all the kinks as far as parts availability and making the o2 sensors get along with the leaner burn of the HHO system.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

How about average miles per gallon.

My MPG including city and hwy driving is at 15 MPG. Actually it varies between 14.7 and 15.8. using 87 octane.

In comparison with the rest of the fleet, is it Good / Average / Low???

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

that's probably about average, but think about where you'd be if you used premium? you could hit 19 mpg average on 93 if you're getting 15 on 87

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

i get 15mpg towing my boat (1 ton) going 55 on the highway. so i would say your lower, Also if you don't use premium, your just kind of stupid. I don't know where your filling up, but my 91 octane is only 8-15 cents more then 87. i use Exxon, BP, or shell. $1200 for premium beats new valves or new head gaskets, plus the improved performance is great.

also if you can find gas with no ethonal use it! you gain 1-3 mpg! ethonal is such a scam....

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Snowdude, in NC if you drive at 55 on the highway you get run over.

On the highway, you got to do 78+ to keep up with the traffic. My SD loves to cruise at 80+.

Regarding prices, please check the web, lowest price in NC for regular is $ 1.72 and premium is $ 1.97, today. The difference was much higher when prices were at $3.00 not long ago. I am not sure what is going with gas prices in North East Wisconsin.

Regarding MPG, EPA rates the 4.0 L DII at 13 MPG city 17 MPG hwy. It will be great if one can get 20 MPG. Maybe an HHO kit that was mentioned earlier will do the trick.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

keep in mind the EPA ratings are always ultra conservative, and can be off as much as 3 MPG on the low and high number.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

55 on a 2 lane going up north. on HWY 29 (4 lanes) i usually go around 75 and get 17 mpg. without a boat i would get probably 16-18 (but i seldom leave our boat at our lake home).

even 30 cents, its still worth it, you know it will be more reliable, and you know the person you sell the truck to isn't getting screwed.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

I did the math and found that I was actually saving money by running at least 92 octane. I get more mpg than the equivelant price amount of the regular (so if I put $25 in premium and $25 in regular I would get more milage out of the premium). Also most countries other than the U.S. use higher octanes. I know that 87 is hard to come byin costa rica (I believe they only have two grades at most gas stations with nothing lower than 90ish) and I would imagine the closer you get to venezuela, the better the gas gets. Someone correct me if I am wrong...

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Disco Dave, you are absolutely right, it all depends on how you drive it. In extremely cold weather consumption is higher. LA freeways at rush hour have the same impact. At 65, the Disco gets much better mileage than at 80+.

Unfortunately, the DI & DII have not been endowed with great aerodynamics, so the higher the speed the worse the consumption.

By the way, the 2000 SD in discussion has 80 K Miles, its original o2 sensors (all 4), its original spark plug wires and it passes NC state emissions (similar to California) inspection with flying colors every year.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

the aerodymanics are HORRIBLE!! my wind deflector on my roof rack only stops the wind noise, no hope of improving the aerodynamics with that thing! but i know i didn't buy this truck for the aerodynamics or the mpg. i kinda like the fact that its cool and slow...less speeding tickets that way!!

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Disco Dave, I love the shape of the D1 and D2 and the off road capabilities, it is the reason why I own the three. For gas mileage, I would use a Saab 95 Aero, even my M5 gets 27 MPG on the interstate.

I learned to drive in a beat up old series II with the three levers on the transmission tunnel.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

AMEN!! they are awesome trucks...i think i will always have at least one. do you really have a unimog? i'd love to get one of those, then my buddy with the Pinzguar and I can really have some fun!

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

A 67 404 with 2.2 L gas, offset axles with reduction gears in the hubs, 6 spd forward, 2 speed reverse. It is not the one in the picture, it is rusty and old. We use Unimogs overseas as farm implements, they are working trucks. Farmers use them like they use a john deere on a small farm here. The word stands for UNIversal MOtor Gerat. Gerat in german means device or tool.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

I run either Sunoco or Shell v-power, both 93 octane. The previous owner always used regular unleaded. I used to run reg when I first got it only because it didn't say "premium unleaded only" inside the fuel door (like a Jag or Benz) which would explain why I was only getting 7-10mpg. Also, I found out the hard way on my Benz that running regular will destroy the catalytic converter. So now I get 14mpg around town using 93 octane.... the extra $$$ to fill up pays for itself.

Eric

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

The 3.9, 4.0 and 4.6 are the same engine just different strokes.
Non of these engines use a EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) valve.
The EGR has two main purposes, one is to reduce combustion temps and the other is to reduce emissions by buring some of the exhaust gases in the combustion chambers.
With no EGR you need to run premium gas to keep from baking the motor oil inside the cylinder heads and valley pan.
When you bake the oil inside the engine you are creating sludge which will kill your engine.
So you save a few bucks now but you spend four times as much later.
As for other countries, they dont have 3 grades of gas, they have 2, 95 octane and 110 octane.
There are more diesels on the road in other countries than gas cars. Only in America do diesels get a bad rap.
Bottom line is this, LR knows what they were doing in requiring premium gas.
If it was not required then they would say that it is "recommended but not required", but they dont, they say that it is required.
If you want to be cheap, drop HBO.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Spike555, you make a great point in regards to the lack of EGR on these engines, to keep combustion chambers cooler at light open throttle and lean conditions. EGR never comes on at idle or at wide open throttle, it does at cruising speed.

On the other hand, these engines use knock sensors to listen to pre-ignition or detonation in the combustion chambers so that the ECU can manage timing and injection.

So, when I get a free weekend, I will do the 60 K Mi service on the 2004 4.6 L, despite the fact that it has 48 K Mi. Will replace all the fluids with their synthetic equivalent from Mobil 1 and will start it on a premium unleaded diet.

Will report back in 5000 miles the average MPG, using premium in the 2004.

Someone made mention in an earlier response to the DRIVE AROUND THE WORLD LONGITUDE EXPEDITION: http://www.drivearoundtheworld.com/vehicles/

I wish I knew what type of fuel did they use going though central asia.

My favorite clip about the disco II:
http://www.drivearoundtheworld.com/m...-LONGITUDE.wmv

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

All fuel injected engines use knock sensors.
They will adjust the engine timing as much as needed to prevent spark knock so as to preserve the engine no matter the performance or MPG loss.
Even though you cannot hear spark knock does not mean that it is not happening.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

TDI... I remember my mother having a Volvo 850 TDI in Europe... LOVED IT! And yes, if they would be easier to find, that would have been something to consider! So, would anybody recommend not doing such a thing with a 4.6L? Also, I heard that with the TDI you can wade through deeper waters, is that true? Would a snorkel do anything for non-diesel discos aside from getting cleaner air from high up?

BTW, I drove from LA to Denver for New Year's and last weekend we drove out to Phoenix. Long distances that really allowed me to check on the MPG. Doing about 75-80 most of the time, I got around 15 MPG on premium. That includes going through the Rockies though... I bet that when going 70-75 you could easily get 16MPG..., that is just so hard... :):)

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Sorry Spike, heavy spark knock can be heard and felt by any driver. Light spark knock can also be heard by a technician or an engine expert. So, if you cannot hear it, it is not there.

To test this statement, hook up your OBD II diagnostics tester (I use a Vetronix / Bosch Mastertech) and drive any vehicle that is exhibiting occasional spark knock.

In the data list, you will see that the ECU will retard your timing advance when you hear heavy spark knock, it will not retard under light occassional spark knock.

I am reading the Fuel sections in my owners manuals for the 2000 SD (page 89) and the 2004 SE7 (page 115).

2000 SD(Page 115): "Premium unleaded (90 - 92) should be used whenever possible. However lower octane fuels can be used but performance and economy may be reduced." NOTE:" Occasional, light, engine knock experienced ONLY for short periods while accelerating or climbing hills is acceptable."

When Land Rover talks about lower octane fuels, they are thinking about cut gasoline mixed with kerosene or diesel that you get in easten or central africa or central asia.

The Land Rover brand was not designed to compete with a mercury sable wagon on our speed limited highways. Land Rovers were designed to drive around the world under any condition, handling any type of fuel. It is why they use a low compression pushrod V8.

So as I stated previously, the 2004 SE7 will go on a premium diet and I will report my MPG in 5 K Miles.

The 2000 SD, I am sure that it will go another 80 K miles the way it has done on 87 octane and it will still run as good as new. The reason: I maintain it religiously...

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

I live in Oklahoma and the best gas I can find is 91 octane...

Does anyone know of a good resource online to find a gas station with 92 or 93 octane??

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Check this out: http://www.oklahomacitygasprices.com/index.aspx?fuel=C

Typically, BP & Texaco carry the higher octane premium. I have to use that in the M5 to generate the 400 HP at 7000 RPM and keep the pistons in the cylinders at 11 to 1 compression.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

The reason TDIs can wade through such deep water is that they don't have any ECUs. A snorkel does help a gas Disco (or any truck for that matter) but if you plan on going through water REALLY deep you should really look into water proofing anything electronic that's under the hood, and you also need to extend the breather tubes up to the top of the snorkel. I'll be doing all of this to my truck hopefully before summer :D

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

You make a great point. I know people on job assignment in eastern Africa that operate the Disco (V8 gas and 5 speed manual) right next to the Nissan Patrol and the Toyota landcruiser.

The D1 does great and it is the top choice for long distance travel, much more comfortable with better suspension articulation.

For gas, it is first come first serve with 5 gallon jerry cans or improvised hand pumps from larger tanks.

So, you did the right thing buying and owning a Disco.

RE: Why Spend the $$$$? Regular vs Premium
 

Anybody have any suggestions on how to waterproof the under hood electronics? Specifically the ECU.