20" wheels - all-terrain tire size questions?
#1
12-31-2015, 01:08 PM
20" wheels - all-terrain tire size questions?
I know this has been hashed out a thousand times over the years - and I THOUGHT I was fairly well-informed about the subject, but now that I'm faced with needing new tires, I have no idea what to do.
I've got an HSE w/ factory 19s and I really like the wheels, but unfortunately my only options are scorpion atr (fairly bland) or the cooper zeon.
My issue is that I work at a restoration facility and we currently get just about zero discount on coopers, even tire rack sucks - they basically cover fright for you (yay!). So I'm looking at about $970 shipped from treaddepot.com THEN I have to mount/balance them.
From one of our vendors, I can get a few different black wheel designs (American Racing, Rockstar, etc) in 20"s, with nitto terra grappler G2s (the new 600 treadwear / 50-65k warranty ones) for under $1400 shipped.
I know the Nitto is more capable, but it's on a 20" wheel. The math says a stock 255/55/19 has a 5.52" sidewall, and a 275/55/20 would have a 5.95" sidewall (diameter would go up from 30.0" to 31.89") I would probably install Johnson rods at the same time. Based on that info, I shouldn't really lose much of any capability even going up to 20. I'm really most concerned with standard traction metrics like wet/dry, and load capacity (far greater than whatever POS tires are on this thing now) plus possibly some light trails, snow, etc.. but again it has cheapo all-seasons on it right now so the Nittos will be night and day.
I'm really only asking after my experiences on the range rover sport I had - I went for looks and put 22" stormers on it with yokohama parada spec-x's (30 series sidewall I think) and with all the gravel roads I go on, the tread actually started chunking off like someone was cutting into it with a razor blade. Almost looked like a defect (then again these are very heavy vehicles). They were also extremely sensitive to balance, never really got them to balance right (slight wobble) and I had to make sure I dodged pot holes/debris religiously or something would get bent / damaged.
I'm thinking 22" is just a different extreme and I should be fine (after all many rovers now come with 20's) but I'm still a little paranoid. She towed fine with the 22s but I never really wanted to cross any creeks or stuff like that - don't really want to be limited anymore by whatever stupid wheels are on it.
I've got an HSE w/ factory 19s and I really like the wheels, but unfortunately my only options are scorpion atr (fairly bland) or the cooper zeon.
My issue is that I work at a restoration facility and we currently get just about zero discount on coopers, even tire rack sucks - they basically cover fright for you (yay!). So I'm looking at about $970 shipped from treaddepot.com THEN I have to mount/balance them.
From one of our vendors, I can get a few different black wheel designs (American Racing, Rockstar, etc) in 20"s, with nitto terra grappler G2s (the new 600 treadwear / 50-65k warranty ones) for under $1400 shipped.
I know the Nitto is more capable, but it's on a 20" wheel. The math says a stock 255/55/19 has a 5.52" sidewall, and a 275/55/20 would have a 5.95" sidewall (diameter would go up from 30.0" to 31.89") I would probably install Johnson rods at the same time. Based on that info, I shouldn't really lose much of any capability even going up to 20. I'm really most concerned with standard traction metrics like wet/dry, and load capacity (far greater than whatever POS tires are on this thing now) plus possibly some light trails, snow, etc.. but again it has cheapo all-seasons on it right now so the Nittos will be night and day.
I'm really only asking after my experiences on the range rover sport I had - I went for looks and put 22" stormers on it with yokohama parada spec-x's (30 series sidewall I think) and with all the gravel roads I go on, the tread actually started chunking off like someone was cutting into it with a razor blade. Almost looked like a defect (then again these are very heavy vehicles). They were also extremely sensitive to balance, never really got them to balance right (slight wobble) and I had to make sure I dodged pot holes/debris religiously or something would get bent / damaged.
I'm thinking 22" is just a different extreme and I should be fine (after all many rovers now come with 20's) but I'm still a little paranoid. She towed fine with the 22s but I never really wanted to cross any creeks or stuff like that - don't really want to be limited anymore by whatever stupid wheels are on it.
#2
01-01-2016, 05:10 AM
the most basic concern with larger wheels is the loss of sidewall height and you have addressed this issue by increasing overall diameter. Really, there should be minimal difference in capability as far as negatives go. Maintenance and performance is another story.
You are correct in saying that 22s are extreme because with 22s and a similar diameter tire you would lose 1 inch of sidewall making the ride rougher and increasing the chance of wheel damage. Large diameter wheels and short sidewalls are meant to decrease sidewall deflection and improve handling in high speed cornering, vehicle sway, etc. and are more suited to track than trail.
20 inch wheels and tires that match or increase sidewall height should work fine but keep the following in mind;
the positive is that the larger tire and lift kit will increase under vehicle clearance therefore increasing approach, breakover and departure angles, wading depth, and increase traction and poor condition performance (with a better tread pattern and rubber composition).
the negatives include but are not limited to:
- the larger tire size will "decrease" axle ratios in the sense that the "gear" that touches the ground (the tire) is larger and subsequently will lower acceleration and power to ground numbers.
- greater rolling resistance, increased unsprung weight, and negative effects to aerodynamics, which lead to decreased fuel economy, accelerated wear on bearings, bushings, brakes, etc., negative effects on handling and performance)
- the height difference in the tire is only 1 inch, but add in the 2.5 inches of the Johnson rods and this one inch becomes 3.5 inches that will change you trailer towing ball height, passenger access, roof top access, running gear alignment, and so on.
Most people can survive the differences in handling and performance by adjusting driving technique and using Land Rover's cheats (Sport Mode, turning off ESC, Terrain Response) or driver input (using manual gear selection, using low range and high gear, and good off road driving practices and decisions).
I currently run 285/65 R18 (measures 32.59) with the 2.5 inch J rods and I love the look and the performance of the tire (and the truck), but the performance of the vehicle is slightly reduced and the eventual increase in maintenance will catch up with me soon enough.
In the end, it is your Rover, so do what you want and love it.
You are correct in saying that 22s are extreme because with 22s and a similar diameter tire you would lose 1 inch of sidewall making the ride rougher and increasing the chance of wheel damage. Large diameter wheels and short sidewalls are meant to decrease sidewall deflection and improve handling in high speed cornering, vehicle sway, etc. and are more suited to track than trail.
20 inch wheels and tires that match or increase sidewall height should work fine but keep the following in mind;
the positive is that the larger tire and lift kit will increase under vehicle clearance therefore increasing approach, breakover and departure angles, wading depth, and increase traction and poor condition performance (with a better tread pattern and rubber composition).
the negatives include but are not limited to:
- the larger tire size will "decrease" axle ratios in the sense that the "gear" that touches the ground (the tire) is larger and subsequently will lower acceleration and power to ground numbers.
- greater rolling resistance, increased unsprung weight, and negative effects to aerodynamics, which lead to decreased fuel economy, accelerated wear on bearings, bushings, brakes, etc., negative effects on handling and performance)
- the height difference in the tire is only 1 inch, but add in the 2.5 inches of the Johnson rods and this one inch becomes 3.5 inches that will change you trailer towing ball height, passenger access, roof top access, running gear alignment, and so on.
Most people can survive the differences in handling and performance by adjusting driving technique and using Land Rover's cheats (Sport Mode, turning off ESC, Terrain Response) or driver input (using manual gear selection, using low range and high gear, and good off road driving practices and decisions).
I currently run 285/65 R18 (measures 32.59) with the 2.5 inch J rods and I love the look and the performance of the tire (and the truck), but the performance of the vehicle is slightly reduced and the eventual increase in maintenance will catch up with me soon enough.
In the end, it is your Rover, so do what you want and love it.
#3
01-02-2016, 04:36 PM
Thanks for the reply! I think we're on the same page. Those sound like nice tires on yours but did you have to trim / relocate anything? I thought that was near the limits even with the rods.
I guess my next issue is if I want the "rockstar" offroad look wheels.
Jeepin' / muddin' with all my boyzzzzz and their lifted trucks too.. isn't exactly my thing.
The wheels I REALLY want are these - I think think they compliment the design of the LR3 very well and look like factory LR wheels, which I'd rather have than the rockstar-type designs out there. This is just for reference, I have no idea what that website is. Pretty sure I can get the replicas for about $8-900.
The other nice thing about going with the 20's is that I can sell my HSE wheels for decent $$$, and put it into my roof rack fund.
Then 20s actually end up being about $300 cheaper than just putting coopers on my stock wheels.
I guess my next issue is if I want the "rockstar" offroad look wheels.
Jeepin' / muddin' with all my boyzzzzz and their lifted trucks too.. isn't exactly my thing.
The wheels I REALLY want are these - I think think they compliment the design of the LR3 very well and look like factory LR wheels, which I'd rather have than the rockstar-type designs out there. This is just for reference, I have no idea what that website is. Pretty sure I can get the replicas for about $8-900.
The other nice thing about going with the 20's is that I can sell my HSE wheels for decent $$$, and put it into my roof rack fund.
Then 20s actually end up being about $300 cheaper than just putting coopers on my stock wheels.
#4
01-03-2016, 10:27 PM
there are all kinds of threads and info on the size of tires that will and won't fit.
honestly it all seems like crap to me. one guy says 33s fit fine, another says the max is 31. basically it's up to you to figure it out on your own. I watched a YouTube video where a guy in the states said that the 285/65 R18 fit fine, with minimal rubbing. So I bought them and had all kinds of rubbing issues and ruined all of my wheel arch liners. Had to relocate the rear A/C heat lines in the right rear wheel well, trim and bend over the body seam in both rear wheel wells, trim and round over the frame ends in the front wheel wells, trimmed the front bumper on both sides. Install wheel spacers that decreased my hub centre and caused a bit vibration. But what do you do? With the tires coming in at $2,000 it was easier to burn them off rather than try to sell them and buy another new set. I just dropped $1,600+ on these rims that I had to special order and the shop won't take back as the stupid Land Rover bolt pattern is hard to sell. Probably could have switched to a bolt pattern adapting wheel spacer to achieve the same offset and change up to a more common set of wheels, but with winter tires being the law for 6 months of the year, it is either these wheels and my OEMs or buying two sets of wheels (to fit the adapters) and trying to sell the OEMs. I guess it is trial and error with a new set of tires as these tires are likely too wide to run in the summer when I change wheels.
they are available in 20 inch if you want to give it a shot.
AR89328552335
20" x 8.5"
5x120
GLOSS BLACK MACHINED
$243.00 each
click the link, select AR893, select 20 inch, select white paint.
http://my.americanracing.com/browse-wheels.cfm
honestly it all seems like crap to me. one guy says 33s fit fine, another says the max is 31. basically it's up to you to figure it out on your own. I watched a YouTube video where a guy in the states said that the 285/65 R18 fit fine, with minimal rubbing. So I bought them and had all kinds of rubbing issues and ruined all of my wheel arch liners. Had to relocate the rear A/C heat lines in the right rear wheel well, trim and bend over the body seam in both rear wheel wells, trim and round over the frame ends in the front wheel wells, trimmed the front bumper on both sides. Install wheel spacers that decreased my hub centre and caused a bit vibration. But what do you do? With the tires coming in at $2,000 it was easier to burn them off rather than try to sell them and buy another new set. I just dropped $1,600+ on these rims that I had to special order and the shop won't take back as the stupid Land Rover bolt pattern is hard to sell. Probably could have switched to a bolt pattern adapting wheel spacer to achieve the same offset and change up to a more common set of wheels, but with winter tires being the law for 6 months of the year, it is either these wheels and my OEMs or buying two sets of wheels (to fit the adapters) and trying to sell the OEMs. I guess it is trial and error with a new set of tires as these tires are likely too wide to run in the summer when I change wheels.
they are available in 20 inch if you want to give it a shot.
AR89328552335
20" x 8.5"
5x120
GLOSS BLACK MACHINED
$243.00 each
click the link, select AR893, select 20 inch, select white paint.
http://my.americanracing.com/browse-wheels.cfm
#5
01-04-2016, 08:46 AM
That's crazy! Yeah I had heard enough that I figured I'd ask you about the relocation thing.
Do you think the offset was an issue primarily? Or just the size overall?
I'm extra curious now because you've apparently got the same brand/offset wheels that company sells that I mentioned. Can you post some shots on the rig?
thanks!
edit: I suppose 20s will be different tire-wise but I'm still curious about the wheel design and overall offset
Do you think the offset was an issue primarily? Or just the size overall?
I'm extra curious now because you've apparently got the same brand/offset wheels that company sells that I mentioned. Can you post some shots on the rig?
thanks!
edit: I suppose 20s will be different tire-wise but I'm still curious about the wheel design and overall offset
#6
01-04-2016, 11:17 PM
Here's point form, cuz I've done this lots.
- I wanted mud tires, I bought what seemed to be a good recommendation by a YouTuber
- My mud tires are pretty much too wide for the OEM wheels cuz they rub the suspension
- Opted out of buying spacer adapters and went with flat plate spacers
- Total pain in the butt to have two different tire sizes and spacers and a lift kit to deal with every 6 months, so...
- Bought larger winter tires and sold stock winter tires (don't have to remove lift kit in winter, but still have to swap rubber onto rims).
- Bought a 5th OEM wheel for full size spare
- Bought FIVE shiny new wheels (custom order as there are only 4 Land Rovers in this town, and the tire shop would never sell them to anyone else. basically said - no returns)
- winter tires on OEM wheels, worn out mud tires on NEW wheels.
- haven't done a test fit, because the tire shop installed the OEM wheels (with winter tires... cuz it's winter! even though I asked to test fit the summers and now I don't want to swap tires and spend a bunch of time on the block of ice that I call my driveway).
- no pictures of NEW wheels on the rig.
on the plus side, I just got a key for the shop I work at, so I can do some work with it there after hours.
The new wheels have a different offset and I am worried that the problem area will move to the back side of the front wheel well (although the part about rubbing on the suspension and goofy wheel spacers problem is gone). I will likely have to go a skinnier tire (or shorter, or both) in order to clear the rear of the wheel well while at full lock on the steering wheel and with the suspension compressed (ei, crossing a ditch at an angle or terrain with big rocks)
Also, I totally forgot, since you are looking at 20s, may I recommend REDBOURNE? Hercules Matte Black look fairly similar to your picture. Probably pricey though...
20 inch Land Rover Wheels | Range Rover Rims by Redbourne
- I wanted mud tires, I bought what seemed to be a good recommendation by a YouTuber
- My mud tires are pretty much too wide for the OEM wheels cuz they rub the suspension
- Opted out of buying spacer adapters and went with flat plate spacers
- Total pain in the butt to have two different tire sizes and spacers and a lift kit to deal with every 6 months, so...
- Bought larger winter tires and sold stock winter tires (don't have to remove lift kit in winter, but still have to swap rubber onto rims).
- Bought a 5th OEM wheel for full size spare
- Bought FIVE shiny new wheels (custom order as there are only 4 Land Rovers in this town, and the tire shop would never sell them to anyone else. basically said - no returns)
- winter tires on OEM wheels, worn out mud tires on NEW wheels.
- haven't done a test fit, because the tire shop installed the OEM wheels (with winter tires... cuz it's winter! even though I asked to test fit the summers and now I don't want to swap tires and spend a bunch of time on the block of ice that I call my driveway).
- no pictures of NEW wheels on the rig.
on the plus side, I just got a key for the shop I work at, so I can do some work with it there after hours.
The new wheels have a different offset and I am worried that the problem area will move to the back side of the front wheel well (although the part about rubbing on the suspension and goofy wheel spacers problem is gone). I will likely have to go a skinnier tire (or shorter, or both) in order to clear the rear of the wheel well while at full lock on the steering wheel and with the suspension compressed (ei, crossing a ditch at an angle or terrain with big rocks)
Also, I totally forgot, since you are looking at 20s, may I recommend REDBOURNE? Hercules Matte Black look fairly similar to your picture. Probably pricey though...
20 inch Land Rover Wheels | Range Rover Rims by Redbourne
#7
01-05-2016, 11:01 AM
Super Moderator
I've been really happy with my stock sized 19" MT's from Atturo.
They have a pretty good deal going on them to for forum members
https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...special-76766/
I wrote up some thoughts on them here
https://landroverforums.com/forum/of...5-55r19-76507/
They have a pretty good deal going on them to for forum members
https://landroverforums.com/forum/me...special-76766/
I wrote up some thoughts on them here
https://landroverforums.com/forum/of...5-55r19-76507/
#8
01-05-2016, 11:18 AM
Camel Trophy
That's a nice alternative, definitely....there have been a few times I'd wished I'd stuck with the stock-size. That said, the up-sized tires on the trail do help. I'm lucky that I have the ability to run two sets of rims; the 18s with 32" MT/Rs and the 19s with Nokian Hakkas.
My trouble is that I have two very purpose-built tires and need a set that I can just cruise on when I'm on pavement AND it's above ~45F....but my wife would never approve a third set of rims!
My trouble is that I have two very purpose-built tires and need a set that I can just cruise on when I'm on pavement AND it's above ~45F....but my wife would never approve a third set of rims!
#9
01-05-2016, 11:24 AM
Super Moderator