LR3 Ticking after warmed up
 

Hey Guys,

I have a 2006 LR3 (96k miles) with the V8 4.4l engine in it that has been having a mysterious ticking noise. It first happened only after long road trips when you stopped at a stoplight or something with the vehicle in drive and your foot on the brake. But it has grown significantly worse in the past few weeks. It still only happens after the vehicle is warmed up but is more frequent while driving. It is an intermittent sound, very inconsistent. It does go away once your moving over 35mph or so, that or you just can't hear it.

I took it to a few Land Rover specialists when it was very early on, one suggested a BG EPR engine oil flush with MOA oil additive afterwards, did that, nothing. Another guy suggested it could be either the timing chain slapping the cover or a failed hydraulic lifter. It's tricky because everyone I talk to says that on these engines they haven't ever had to service the lifters. Anyone seen one of these problems before?

I tried tightening the manifold bolts on the driver side because I read somewhere that could be the problem. I could only get to 5 of them but that didn't affect the sounds one bit.

Would really appreciate any help you guys can offer in finding a diagnosis. Thanks!

can you use an automotive stethoscope to pinpoint the location?

slight ticking
 

I have noted a very quiet ticking sound that one can only hear at idle and when standing outside near the bonnet.

I found that with a fresh oil change, the sound would go away and then perhaps three or four thousand miles later I would hear the ticking again.

A fresh oil change and the noise disappears again. I regard it as my needs an oil change notice. Oil level on the dipstick remains as it should, just the noise reappears.

Oil is Castrol 5W-30 Syntec meeting ILSAC GF-4.

Rightly or wrongly, I have presumed the noise emanates from a lifter.

Steven - I did use an automotive stethoscope. It sounds like it is a tick from the front of the engine but internal. I recorded 2 videos and put them on youtube below one is through the stethoscope:


I also did another BG engine oil flush upon a mechanic telling me I didn't do it long enough. I also added Royal Purple 5w-30. Same sound.

bbyer - I've done 3 oil changes now in the past 3 weeks. Same sound.

Thanks for the help guys keep it coming.

...pretty sure mine does this too, but I've heard it more as a "thumping" sound because I've been sitting in the vehicle while I've heard it and have never tried opening the bonnet to get a closer listen.

houm-wa - If it is a thumping sound at all you might want to first check your belts to see what their condition is. I found another guy who had a noise that was a little more thumpy than mine but his turned out to be worn belts.

My noise you can't hear at all in the cabin with the windows up.

OHHHHH ****. I'm having flash back to DII ownership now.

Away with you and your cursed engine tick!

Same Here! FLASHBACK. Dreaded tick :eek:
Oh wait, my DII is still in the driveway lol

But the LR3 doesn't have similar liner issues... OR DOES IT????

Well the hardest part about this whole thing is i've taken it to 3 different specialists and they say they've never had to open up an LR3 V8 Jag engine for hydraulic lifters or timing chains.

That's why i'm looking to find someone with similar issue before I drop $3k on going in there to find whatever's wrong.

In my opinion I'd say it's chain slap from a worn out guide.

my noise is a bit more uniform
 

My ticking noise seems more even or uniform whereas the noise on the videos seems a bit irregular or choppy, if I heard correctly.

Mine's choppy...

One belt is new. I'll have the other one checked.

The worn out timing chain guide is what I think it sounds like also. A little annoyed it's such a task to get fixed and everyone says these don't usually need that kind of work. Anyone know how much this job usually costs?

I've also read up on the power steering pumps making ticking noises. But this is definitely loudest on that front engine cover so I couldn't image it being from something far from that.

Obviously hard to tell from the video but to me it sounded "sharp" (not muffled) and therefore external to the engine. I'd eliminate anything and everything accessory drive related first.

Isn't there are TSB about the VVT solenoid making noise?

See the PDF attached to a post here: https://landroverforums.com/forum/lr...startup-66362/

A quick update: For starters I have not solved the noise. I took it to a number of mechanics, 2 of which thought it could be a timing chain tensioner. I took off the valve covers and the RH secondary timing chain was pretty loose on some rotations so I did go in and change that out, while I was in there I did the spark plugs too because it's right at 103k mi. However the noise is still there. It did take a while for it to reappear, meaning usually it would show up after running for just a second but this time it took 15minutes for it to appear, this could be because I primed the engine oil pressure by running it without the fuel pump relay or it could be just because it was sitting for a good few days.

Other things I have done, I changed both belts. While changing them I ran it without each belt, but the noise is there without any belts on as well. It definitely requires load to really be apparent which is why when I initially took off the fan belt and ran it it was silent but then reappeared after it warmed up even just a minute or so.

I have also done many oil flushes using BG MOA, Motor Medic, and tried adding MMO, Seafoam, Lucas, and Reslone. None of which helped. However they did make for a super clean engine when I removed the valve covers.

Anyone have any additional thoughts on how to get rid of this noise?

So, this might sound stupid - and I'm sure you've thought of this / mentioned it, but have you checked your exhaust manifold bolts?

I haven't done mine yet, but I'm 110% sure I have an exhaust leak/tick (passenger side I believe) far more obvious under load. Depending on the differential heating of metals it's possible yours tends to happen when it's warm.

Over the years I've read many threads on US and UK forums, and many have reported getting 1/4 to 1/2+ turns out of the bolts and sealing up the exhaust leak without having to R&R the manifold/replace the gasket.

I feel super lazy for not having done it myself yet, but I had the same tick on my 4.4 06 RRS, and it's definitely an issue these motors are prone to. Even if it's not your specific problem, it might be worth checking out - it is kinda annoying / distracting. Would help for diagnostic purposes and to rule stuff out since you obviously seem mechanically inclined (this is certainly easier than pulling valve covers on these suckers!)

110%? Really?

As informative as your post is and as solid as all your advice has been so far, I just couldn't let it go.... :)

You only have 100% certainty/effort/etc. This is my #1 sports cliche that drives me nuts. You can't give more than 100% of what you have. My #2 sports cliche I hate is "they control their own destiny." Sorry...no one controls destiny. That's the nature of it.

Now...back to your regularly scheduled Rover-banter.

I had the exact same sound...I only heard it once, it hasn't come back in a couple weeks

I feel your pain. While that particular expression doesn't bother me so much there are others that I just can't seem to let go even though I know better.

The use of 'anyways' is #1. I cringe every time I hear/read that one.

On a semi-related note, I've got a minor exhaust tick on the driver's side and haven't even tried to do anything about it because a casual glance makes me think I'd need a trained double-jointed contortionist miniature monkey to reach the bolts. Perhaps I should look into that more carefully.

Anyways...

You're a cruel man.

Mmkay you all get the idea :P

I have intermittent ticking as well. Mechanic heard it, but wasn't sure about cause. He doesn't think it's mechanical. I can typically only hear it when I stop at a light and the sound is reflecting off a parked car or a building. So I suspect it's coming out of the wheel well and echoing back at me. Don't think that helps with diagnosis.

For no particular reason I suspect exhaust manifold as well. Maybe I'll try to tighten mine up and see if it helps.

Bruce,

I heard something the other day that reminded me of this post. A friend of mine's father collects cars and has his son drive them to avoid them sitting. Picture this amazingly talented scientist/old chinese guy. He had a newer Saab that ticked, definitely was a lifter. One thing he did (I don't know how he decided this) was to add oil treatment that presumably thinned some oil in certain areas of the engine, which cleared a blockage to the lifters and allowed them to be lubricated. Said for me to hit my truck with oil additive/cleaner/treatment to try and get at that lifter hole that feeds fluid to it so that it might clear a blockage. He did this and then changed the oil after a short time once he was sure the lifters were getting fluid, and no more tick... This guy is is like car rain man.

Hopefully if anyone has any ticking they might try this and get some good results. I certainly will if I start getting a tick.

EDIT: OP, sorry to hear you tried this and got nothing, but it looks like you think it's something else than a lifter. Hope you locate something.

I have the same issue and I have heard it as I am in a tunnel or under an overpass with my windows down. While driving it is really not heard. However, at a stoplight with another vehicle beside me, I hear it when I start off. I am taking my LR3 in today to get the lower control arms replaced (130,000) so it is time and the bushings are worn out. I will have my exhaust manifold screws torqued. I am 110% sure it a manifold issue as I bent the hell out of the exhaust climbing a few months back. I am controlling my destiny by taking her into the shop to be repaired so she does not wear down my new E Series Tires I just put on...

Bwahahahaha....well played, Ferg!

I was getting angry until I saw the 2nd false-cliche and realized you were making a joke.

:)

Help! Ticking
 

Hey guys! I have these same exact noises and cannot figure it out! Did anyone figure out what it was? I have a 2005 LR3 w/ 183,000. Runs like a dream besides this noise driving me nuts! I cannot let this engine fail me before 250k!

Solution to Engine Tick & Theory
 

Hi MikeDDD,

I did find a solution but I only have a theory as to what is actually wrong. But it only costs me $14 more an oil change so that'll do for me.

Let's start with the solution. It's rather simple. As you can see I had the exact same noise but since doing this I haven't heard it in 40k miles.

Change your oil using these steps:
1. Add to oil and follow the instructions on the bottle

2. Change oil using not full synthetic

3. Use

4. Add to oil

Take it for a test drive and it's gone! I tried over a dozen different combinations to get to this(including but not limited to using royal purple, BG, and MMO) and for some reason it's what worked.

Theory behind why I think it works. Remember I said "Theory".

What you are hearing is a lifter tick. I tried changing out one of the timing chain tensioners thinking it was them but that didn't do anything. I took it to 3-4 different land rover specialists and they all said they would have to take the whole engine apart to troubleshoot it costing $3-5k. For some reason I thought paying someone to endlessly search for a problem was a poor use of my money.

What causes the lifter tick is one of a few things:
Loss of compression: early on I found someone saying they heard what was described as the same noise and they went and tightened all of their manifold bolts and it went away. I spend a Saturday trying to tighten those bolts but they are near impossible to get to and when I did none of mine felt even a bit loose.
Change in oil: the oils that people are putting in these cars is somewhat different than the oils back in 2006 when the car was made and even earlier when the engine was designed. Some said it could be the change in the amount of Zinc in the oil.

Regardless all of this led to the oil pressure in certain parts of the engine not being consistent enough causing one of the lifters to not quite do it's job.

Why this solution works. Motor medic flushes out whatever might be inhibiting that lifter from moving easily. And Restore as it says on the can "Restores Compression" on those bolts that are hard to get to or wherever else might be loosing compression.

In the end I found the problem to be what's called a "type writer tick" and happens in Ford engines. At the time of the LR3's manufacturing the Jag engine the company was owned by Ford. Hint's why the problem is consistent with some other Ford engines. The solution I found on a youtube video's comments where a fellow with a new BOSS mustang had the tick and was trying to solve it. In the comments some dude just said "Try this" and had a link to "Restore". In a last ditch effort I tried it and it worked. Trust me I didn't believe it would either seeing as it's a $9 bottle.

Hope this works for you! Full disclosure: i'm not a mechanic, i've never worked for Land Rover, and i'm not liable if this doesn't work. But it's definitely worth a shot. Do us all a solid and report back if it does!

Cheers,
_av

That is a very interesting theory! And I'm glad it's worked for you! Thank you also for a prompt reply!

I am lucky in the sense that my partner is a mechanic/body man and is a very talented mechanic. We bought this car with 150,000 for $2000. (The lady thought the transmission was going bad, and so did we, until we did further research... and I'm blabbing) Anyway, we have done an insane amount of work to it, and brought it basically back to life.


Reguarding the oil changes, when we first got it, (before we drove it from Long Island - Colorado 6 times) we used mobile one 5w-30, always with a quart of Lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer. I have always sworn by this stuff. So as the miles added up pretty quickly we started hearing that tapping noise only at low rpm's and for a quick second as we accelerated. We decided to start using Mobil one 10w-40 high mileage oil and the noise seemed to be noticibly quieter and less frequent. Oh and it also seemed to happen when the oil was clean and new because after about a thousand miles or so it was reappear.

Lately since since my latest oil change in which I used 10-40, and the Lucas of course, it has been almost constant besides when it's first started and when it's not super hot out.

I'm really not sure if it's because of the latest road trip that I took to Colorado with a female companion in which, she was probably the worst driver I've ever driven with, and let's just say my baby got a 4000 mile beating, lol.

Well, I'm kind of hoping it is a lifter tick because that means it's reparable.. I'm not sure if I'm willing to put the thinner 5-30 in it quite yet, only because of how high the miles are, and from what happened before. but thank you very much for your advice. Im going to have to fill my partner Rich in and see when he's willing to get frustrated for a couple hours and check the lifters, lol.

Also, with the amount of work we've done to this car, we have become pretty knowledgeable about a quite a few things so if you have any questions, maybe we could help.

Tried Lucas
 

You do what you feel is best but before spending a half day inspecting the lifters you could try it for the cost of an oil change.

I did try lucas and thicker oil. They did make it quieter but didn't solve it which is why I continued to look for a solution.

The lifter is ticking because it isn't getting oil. Thinner oil is able to get in all of the cracks of the engine including around a lifter. Lucas is basically just putting syrup in your engine, it will quiet everything down but not solve the problem.

Like I said you do you. Good luck.

Sorry forgot to mention that I'm going to Walmart to buy the engine restore to add and see if it helps! My grandfather used to put that in my first Honda when I started driving back in the day, and his cars religiously... hopefully it helps! I'll update

If you have 10W-40 and lucas in there already who knows if it will work. I think a lot of the magic comes from the engine flush and using the dealer recommended Castrol 5W-30 synthetic blend. But do let us know.

Awesome
 

I'm amazed. Drove home from Wal-Mart with a very loud tapping noise. Put the engine restore in, (with the 10-40 and Lucas that is currently in there) and within 2 minutes... GONE! It has been 300 miles since and haven't heard a thing. Thank you!

Glad to hear it worked!

If anyone else tries this to solve the tapping noise please do report back. But so far it sounds like using Restore is a fix.

that or a tired tensioner

If the Jag engine's timing chain guides and tensioners so seldom need changed then this link would not have been created Tmingi chain and tensioner replacement. If you go through the whole thing you'll see it is the same engine we have.

Look at the damage to the guides. Bear in mind that if you do go down the road to check your chain guides, it's a very involved task needing the front engine cover taken off.

That might be the same engine but there were updates made to it at least when used in the Land Rover LR3 HSE V8 as the timing chain tensioners are aluminum with only the part that touches chain being plastic. These are the updated parts that are not near as brittle and subject to fail. The original engine in the 1998 Jag referenced in that post had fully plastic tensioners. The noise that we are solving using Restore is not timing chain tensioner failure. That is more of a chain drag against the cover when revving at slow RPMs rather than a lifter tap.

And yes, swapping these out is no walk in the park.