What's folks thoughts on a LC returning to the US? I have read some introductory info on the updated Lexus GX, and some of the #s look great for horsepower/torque. I'm assuming the lower priced LC version would be same engine and less glitzy interior. Do you think Toyota is aiming at ND?

 

This should be posted in the other forum no? It’s not a Defender post.

 

ls the Land Cruiser a competitor to the Grenadier?

 

The LC was a competitor to the old defender. On a trip to Australia decades back, I noticed both were used for off road oriented jobs. In my country, the US, the old defender stopped new production sales sometime in the late 1980s or early 90s?? When ND started selling in 2020, the LC EXITED the US market in 2021! Although LC and old defenders were competing offerings globally, they were not sold head-to-head for long in the US marketplace. With the re-introduction of LC and a ND out there, these two are likely to duke it out, same as they did with the old defender and 200 series LC. The new LC 300 series is about the same size as ND, and will likely cost about $90k if they bring over the top line 300 LC to the US. I hope they do, as the US has folks that will pay for a top spec LC. You can see the Lexus conversion to the LC (sold as LX). Because LC has been sold globally for decades and used in harsh off-road conditions, unless we get a different version, it's likely to be highly useful in off road situations, similar to ND. Both have a good deal of technology, but I think the ND has more tech and has more customization features available. The dependability and reliability of the LC has been well documented, so maybe LC will edge out ND on those qualities. Overall, the ND is lovely to drive, and I doubt LC will be as fun. But having driven an old 200 series LC, it drove amazing for the size. If you are not sure about LC off road, Toyota is pretty close to MC Hammer "Can't touch this". They have a TON of credibility and a strong fan-base for LCs. I like my existing LR, and am more likely to upgrade to ND than a LC when the time comes to replace the LR. However, there's no way if Toyota brings over the fully capable 300 series LC to the US, some of the lower priced NDs are going to have competition. For anyone thinking the ND is getting too high-end trophy like, the LC is likely to be appealing. The Lexus LX is great on paper, but if you spend $130k for a glam mobile, it's not likely to go camping or be hosed out afterwards. The LX is pretty much a G Wagon alternative if you want to drive around with other folks in the SUV and thus need an SUV with room. But neither of them are a practical choice if you intentionally plan to get the SUV dirty and dinged up.

As for Grenadier, the LC has been in Australia for decades, and Australia was one of the first launch markets for Grenadier - so the Australian commentators are likely already comparing the two. Entering Australia early was Grenadier trying to muscle a few sales from LC in other markets that are highly critical of any SUV that may leave them stranded. In the US marketplace, Grenadier is more likely to compete with Wrangler and Bronco. I don't see it as a ND direct competitor, because even though it's likely to prove unstoppable off road, the on-road is an important consideration that makes buyers look at ND to begin with. If you don't care about on-road manners, you probably wouldn't value the ND driving performance enough to pay almost double what a Wrangler may cost. But on-road delight is where ND shines, and I don't think that's Grenadier's focus yet. Their first model seems to be "we're Grenadier, now where's that Wrangler Rubicon that thinks I can't follow it up a mountain?" It looks like it will, so Grenadier is likely to get sales from those two (but not much from ND unless they upgrade the interior, including adding some tech). From what I've seen online, the Grenadier looks better on-road than Wranglers, plus it has a roof, so I personally would rather a Grenadier than a Wrangler. The LC will likely be over a Grenadier in terms of comfort, but under ND. In off road stats, I suspect all 3 ND, Grenadier, and LC will be stand outs when you compare them to the "everybody else" SUV marketplace.

You ever wonder why JLR doesn't just do a Defender trim with 18" steel wheels, 6 cyl. engine, solid rear axle, locking rear and center diff, a strong steel roof, skid plates, and a small functional bumper? It's not a secret recipe. Maybe it's because LC already did that in other markets, and it's tough to compete with LC. A LC 300 series in the US priced at $90k would compete with $90k Defenders, and hence JLR is upping the tech and gliz to "get away" from any direct LC comparison (imo).

 

Personally, even if it was given to me free, I would not take one. I had an endless supply of LC while I was with the UN. All were top level trim, and nearly every one had its crappy transmission fail the 3rd gear. I was so frustrated at the poor quality and to ensure I never got another issued, I emptied three magazines from my AK in the last UN one I had. I loath them, you would as well if they, for example, stranded you south of Mogadishu so you had to walk 10 klicks to get the hand-talki to work with the repeater. So one would think the latest iterations to be better, but alas no. In Borneo a few years ago, I had three of the NEW turbo diesels also kill their transmission, again 3rd gear exploding. Yeah, they came and got them, but it did not improve my mood. So to make me even happier, one of the replacements had its BRAKE CALIPER FALL OFF!

So perhaps for an all wheel drive grocery fetching vehicle, they may be good. As a real field vehicle, at least for me, not so much so. Yes Land Rovers do break, a lot, but not fatally. I have even driven a Series IIa 500 miles with a blown transmission, shifting from high to low. You see most fixes on older Landies can be repaired with a really comprehensive set of hammers. Land Cruisers, a fully automatic weapon seems best.

Holy crap! The brake caliper fell off!

 

Not really since I'm currently driving a 2022 Defender with 18" steel wheels, a 4 cylinder that is more powerful and has more torque than an old 6 cylinder, locking rear and center diffs, a strong steel roof, skid plates and a functional bumper. The only thing I'm "missing" is a solid rear axle and I'm not really missing that because the independent rear suspension is more adaptable, comfortable and compact.

 

excellent info.... I've not had a long time experience with LC so I don't know how they will fair over time, only that they win alot of praise and they seem to be everywhere LR is. For me, my old LR has been reliable enough and that's why I lean to ND. I tested a GX (which is the LC Prado in other markets as a base) years ago, and found it to be fine to drive, but it didn't have the fun of the LR, so I bought the LR. I don't regret it at all and I've had a good LR. However, I have a friend that went with a GX and still has it, so it must be OK as it's been 9 years now on both our SUVs. I also think the LC may attract folks that think ND is either too costly or too upscale, but obviously reliability is a key concern & your experience is valuable to consider.

 

Just test drove a friends brand new LC - it was fun to drive, but no 110 Defender. the trunk of the LC was just a bit raised to allow for their battery. I found the haptics and heads up display annoying (you can't pick and choose what features you want: it's all or nothing with a single upgrade package). there was a driver monitoring device staring at you from the steering wheel column - very weird.... some of the tech was just not for me: it's a LC - why would I want dynamic driving or sport mode? It didn't drive like a truck - it was smooth and handled well. As a driver, I like how Defender moved the gear shifter out of the way - making more room for my coffee cup + water bottle. the LC back seat didn't have as much headroom, and the front dash space was not optimized like Defender. The interior space and function of Defender beats LC big time. On the outside, the LC has a large hatch - it's not a small SUV so it's a big door that arks up. I prefer the swing door Defender. IDK if it had rear fog lights (I don't think it did). one feature I do like better than Defenders was the moon roof. On Defender, it's an entirely glass roof, which is not great if you load a rack as I do (haphazardly!) The LC had a small moon roof - it checks the box for air from above without entirely making the roof glass. The other thing that was clear is that it's a Toyota - there are some buyers that just won't want to park a LR in their driveway. They have some $$ (as the LC was over $70k), but they can still say they are "just driving a Toyota."

 

Toyota had to recall a lot of their engines due to catastrophic failures. Some of these engines were in the GX Lexus and Land Cruisers.

 

Yeah, heard that. Had also heard that while other manufacturers were focusing on more EV production, Toyota hybrids were topping others in sales and satisfaction, so I dipped my little toe in the water and bought some Toyota stock. Right before the engine failure thing hit the news, and their stock price. But, I’m in it for the long run, as I think they will shake that off and bounce back stronger. Toyota, as well as Honda and Hyundai, still puts out a great, reliable vehicle that has legions of satisfied customers who keep coming back for more. Overall, still love my trouble-free Defender and don’t see myself parting with it anytime soon.