Don't Read This.
Mudding
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 110
Likes: 47
I had 4 wranglers and not 1 was without issues. The most recent needed a new rear axle, 2 batteries and the visor just decided to fall off. However, people still buy them. Lots of them.
I read an article a while back that the more premium the vehicle, the more they have a repair bias. Example- you buy a new $30k Toyota, you mentally believe it isn’t a more expensive vehicle, so you accept issues. However, if you spend $85k- even a small noise will be noted as a needed repair, as “I paid a premium price, I deserve a premium result”. You may have the same problem on each vehicle, but only the premium brand ends up being brought to the dealership for repair.
I don’t know, I think the above is coupled with the fact that you pay premium because you get premium features. More stuff = more that go wrong. Other models are built in bulk and features are cut to keep the price down.
From there, some brands just have a better R&D budget, some are garage babies. It all adds up and LR just pings some of the higher risk areas.
I read an article a while back that the more premium the vehicle, the more they have a repair bias. Example- you buy a new $30k Toyota, you mentally believe it isn’t a more expensive vehicle, so you accept issues. However, if you spend $85k- even a small noise will be noted as a needed repair, as “I paid a premium price, I deserve a premium result”. You may have the same problem on each vehicle, but only the premium brand ends up being brought to the dealership for repair.
I don’t know, I think the above is coupled with the fact that you pay premium because you get premium features. More stuff = more that go wrong. Other models are built in bulk and features are cut to keep the price down.
From there, some brands just have a better R&D budget, some are garage babies. It all adds up and LR just pings some of the higher risk areas.
a Toyota or keep with issues is more acceptable from an expectation standpoint. The trackhawk at 100k is a good example. 100k for a 40k jeep. Still a jeep.
Winching
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 694
Likes: 179
You got 295k outa your '15i? With that transmission and chassis vibration??? I had a '15i..Cadillac bought it back at 15k (transmission) and replaced it with a '16...Bought that one back @ 3k miles (cash that time) because of the chassis vibration issue....
Really wanted to buy a full size RR in '15 instead of the Escalade, wife reminded me of all the issues I had with my previous RR...Guess I didn't play that one right..?!?!
Really wanted to buy a full size RR in '15 instead of the Escalade, wife reminded me of all the issues I had with my previous RR...Guess I didn't play that one right..?!?!
Rock Crawling
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 420
Likes: 272
From: Kirkland
Sir Jim will let JLR die on the vine. There is nothing more satisfying for a billionaire to watch something suffer after being denied the crown jewel. JLR cit off any deal with Sir Jim when they would not sell him the manufacturing tools to build the defender. The decision by JLR actually helped him build a much better version of the Grenadier we see today. Yes, a person I know from Australia gets his keys in 45 days as it is being loaded on the ship the dealership confirmed with him that he will be available to pick it up. I don't think Sir Jim would even care to buy JLR, ppl in the UK hate him for backing Brexit and moving to Monaco to avoid taxes. Promise to build the Grenadier in Wales only turn about face and build in France. Best bet JLR goes the way Volvo did and be bought by a company that will let them build 3 different cars on the same chassis.
Mudding
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 163
Likes: 35
From: Don't call it "Cali"
Where I live, the Discovery 5 actually competes with the X7 as a 3-row family hauler. (6 cylinder X7's not the M50i version) In fact, the Discovery 5 may even be more popular than the X7 for families that use the nearby drive-on beach. Of course that may change with the 3-row 130 now available.
Defenders are scarce here in Silicon Valley, way more D5's. Of course, every third car around here is a Tesla so make of that what you will.
Mudding
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 215
Likes: 132
From: Brooklyn, NY
Not a popular take but the Disco is already an upscale Defender in every way but price. You can keep your approach angles and swinging door.
Defenders are scarce here in Silicon Valley, way more D5's. Of course, every third car around here is a Tesla so make of that what you will.
Defenders are scarce here in Silicon Valley, way more D5's. Of course, every third car around here is a Tesla so make of that what you will.
With that said, I think the D5 is great and if/when the time comes to get a larger SUV than my 90 I may very well choose it over the Defender 110, but it doesn’t seem like many people agree with me.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,135
Likes: 824
From: Boston, MA
I agree the D5 is an upscale Defender, just not upscale enough to make enough people pick it over a slightly less upscale, yet more capable, new, “cooler” vehicle.
With that said, I think the D5 is great and if/when the time comes to get a larger SUV than my 90 I may very well choose it over the Defender 110, but it doesn’t seem like many people agree with me.
With that said, I think the D5 is great and if/when the time comes to get a larger SUV than my 90 I may very well choose it over the Defender 110, but it doesn’t seem like many people agree with me.
Thread Starter
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Pro Wrench
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,558
Likes: 1,439
I agree the D5 is an upscale Defender, just not upscale enough to make enough people pick it over a slightly less upscale, yet more capable, new, “cooler” vehicle.
With that said, I think the D5 is great and if/when the time comes to get a larger SUV than my 90 I may very well choose it over the Defender 110, but it doesn’t seem like many people agree with me.
With that said, I think the D5 is great and if/when the time comes to get a larger SUV than my 90 I may very well choose it over the Defender 110, but it doesn’t seem like many people agree with me.
IMO, a Defender is a truck I would buy and not care who built it. The design is, for lack of a better word, special.
A Disco is a milquetoast family hauler that gets cross shopped against every other 7-passenger box and the Disco loses almost all of those battles. Hell, I'd take a Highlander over a Disco.
Where you say "upscale" I would argue the Defender is more utilitarian/less plush and that's actually a good thing for people who use it for more than just school drop-off.
I think this also extends the "more people would buy them if they were reliable" conversation because what gets left out is that, while reliability is probably an extreme liability for a Disco, when LR really does something special, it sells no matter what.
Last edited by _Allegedly; Jan 11, 2023 at 06:21 PM.
TReK
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 1,401
From: Hill Country, Tx
I think the problem is a lot of people equate "Expensive" with "Luxury" or "Upscale". The Defender does cost a lot. I don't even think they market it as Luxury or Upscale. So a lot of folks jump into them and think they are getting something it is not. Just my 2cents on Marketing. BTW - I'm more of an engineer type by trade, so what do I know?
Mudding
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 215
Likes: 132
From: Brooklyn, NY
I guess I have really slow standards, but I don’t get why everyone says the Defender isn’t luxurious. I did get wood, black headliner, sunroof, the (cheaper) leather seats with heat but I would imagine most people do.
Is it just the lack of giants screens? Or I guess the neoprene like material isn’t particularly lux but but you can get leather in those places instead.
Compared to say a GLE, would makes it less luxurious?
Is it just the lack of giants screens? Or I guess the neoprene like material isn’t particularly lux but but you can get leather in those places instead.
Compared to say a GLE, would makes it less luxurious?
Mudding
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 215
Likes: 132
From: Brooklyn, NY
I think where this goes wrong is assuming people are only choosing between "any Land Rover".
A Disco is a milquetoast family hauler that gets cross shopped against every other 7-passenger box and the Disco loses almost all of those battles. Hell, I'd take a Highlander over a Disco.
A Disco is a milquetoast family hauler that gets cross shopped against every other 7-passenger box and the Disco loses almost all of those battles. Hell, I'd take a Highlander over a Disco.
But… a HIGHLANDER over a Disco??? Wow, why? Until a few years ago if you needed to haul 5-7 people offroad in luxury in the US, it was basically Disco, Grand Cherokee, Land Cruiser, Lex GX, or G Wagon. Two of those are 100K+ and I think the Disco competes well with the GC and (less so) GX.