Hey guys,

OKAY so be kind please. My 2023 Silicone Silver L663 has just landed stateside and should be in my hands early next month.
We went with the 3.0L P400 i6 motor on the S and the following packages:

1. Towing Pack
2. Off Road Pack
3. Advanced Off Road
4. Cold Climate
5. Air Suspension
6. 3 Zone Climate
7. Country Pack
8. Tire Cover
9. Black Leather Interior
10. Color Matched Roof

I have been working on trucks and cars for 20+ years as a DIY mechanic, avid track day enthusiast etc. on Ford, Honda and Toyota vehicles. We also have horses and love camping so we are extra excited.

HERE is where I get anxious:

1. Every mechanic I know has warned me NOT to buy this car due to horrible reliability issues.
2. I am leaving a 2009 V8 4runner which has been incredibly reliable and a 1999 Ford Ranger prior to that.
3. This will be my daily driver.

I have ton a TON of searching on this and found the following but thus have the following questions for you all:
1. There are numerous software bugs that seem to have been mentioned 2020-2021.(fake over heating, nav console issues, random check engine lights, car play disappearing) Has anyone found that JLR has now fixed these going forward so the 2023 model should be free of this?
2. The dreaded windshield whistle: Anyone know the status on this? Should I have the dealership fix this before I even leave the lot?
3. Air Suspension = expensive: I was told this car NEEDED to have the air suspension package. Is this a mistake?
4. The motor is likely going to fail: JLR has not exactly had a great reputation with the discovery etc. Should we be worried about this?

Overall I still WANT this car. I"ve been told to buy a GX470, an LX570, a Bronco, pretty much ANYTHING else. But in truth this is the body and interior I want but I admit I do not want to deal with routine breakdowns and hassle. Thoughts? Is this just old news now that the cars been made for a while the kinks are worked out?

 

Compared to other LR products Defender is fairly solid.
P300 is less complicated though...
P400 has mild hybrid, alternator/generator/whatever they are calling it will go at some point
D200 (which we dont have in NA) is horrible in some markets
D300 is good

 

Obviously there are many opinions out there, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I was told the same thing when I bought my RR Evoque in its first model year, which is another thing you are never supposed to do. Buy the first generation of a new vehicle. Owned it for 8 years and it never saw the dealership after the day I picked it up. Did my own maintenance; oil changes, installed a Magna-Flow exhaust, tow hitch, brake upgrade to slotted/cross drilled rotors and better quality, low dust brake pads. Enjoy your Defender, drive it with a smile on your face, and don’t keep looking in the rear view mirror for zombie problems to creep up on you. Every car maker has its detractors. I’ve owned my ‘22 X-Dynamic SE since November ‘21 and it has not seen the dealer since.

 

Welcome and build looks pretty good! I have 64000 (not nice) miles on my 21s p300 as of today with that has been am absolute champ since day one. I built mine as stripped as possible to avoid as much exess complexity in an already complex machine, ie off road pack for the locking rear as one of my only checked options. Most of the fluff on higher trims are niceties but IMO don't suit the character of the vehicle. Remember these initially came out at entry point 49-53k (thereabouts) on release that people and dealers tacked on another 15-20k of accessories and 22s which hurts my soul.

Have fun, coming from an old Cj7 as my first vehicle followed by an Fj Cruiser, the 110 is by far one of the best all prupose vehicles out there.

 

Inine

 

Absolutely the same experience.

I think a lot of the reputation for unreliability comes from people completely ignoring break / running in procedures on the new engines. Some of the UK built models also had quality issues in the past, but the Defender is built in a brand new factory in Slovakia. 90% of the JD Power stuff can be ignored because it's someone giving a zero score because they can't figure out how to connect their phone to CarPlay (and didn't listen when the salesperson told them).

It's also just a "known thing" that people who have zero experience with JLR products talk **** about them based on what they heard from their brother's friend's coworker who used to be a mechanic.

I had 5 recalls in the first two years of owning my Audi Q5 vs zero for the Defender. My Toyotas were fairly reliable, but I had rear differential grenade in my truck and a head gasket blow in my 4Runner so they are far from perfect.

Of course, I also owned a 2001 Audi Allroad so maybe my tolerance for issues is high....

 

All right...Here is my story...I don't give a crap about the model code names so bear with me....Had a first year ('03) RR HSE..Absolutely loved the truck, but it was bad, very bad. Traded it in the EXACT day the factory warranty expired on a diesel MB.....Fast forward to '15. Really wanted to get a new full-size RR, wife reminds me of the issues etc with the '03 we had. I decide to get a new generation Escalade instead....The one with the 8-speed..Because 8 speeds are better than 6....Experienced my first buy-back. Got a '16 courtesy of Cadillac. They bought that one back even faster.
Morale of the story...Drive what you want because everything breaks eventually.
And btw...There is a week-old Defender 110SE sitting in the garage right now...My wifes new DD. Go figure!

 

Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about 22s. Great shot. Where is that

 

My wife owned a 2011 LR4 HSE.....we drove it 90,000 miles before trading it in 2018. Zero issues. Had the routine service/oil change done every 15K miles and that was it. Loved the vehicle but just needed something bigger for hauling around teenage volleyball players to tournaments.

I just bought a 2023 Defender SE Hakuba Silver with khaki interior. It's slightly used with 3500 miles but feels like brand new. I bought it long distance from a Massachusetts Mercedes dealer and had it delivered to Michigan. The khaki interior has a slight greenish hue to it depending on how much light is in the car, but Ive grown to love the color over the week Ive owned the vehicle. I drove it 5 hours round trip this past weekend and it was very comfortable. Yes there is some wind noise from the fact youre basically driving a box down the freeway, but no whistling noises....I think that problem was fixed a couple of years ago. The engine is wonderful with tons of power. The only thing I've yet to get used to is the gear selector. Its different from anything else Ive owned because you just push a button to shift into park, but then you push another button to toggle between R and D. I've accidentally pushed the gear shift up thinking i was in park when I fact, its in reverse. Just going to take a few more hours of driving to get used to.

I bought this car because of the capability first and the fact that the interior is so easy to keep clean. (no carpet)....especially having an 85 lb German Shepherd. I bought it secondly for the looks.....it puts a smile on my face every time I get into it.

Enjoy your new ride and dont sweat the reliability issues.

 

My turn. I've owned a 1964 SIIA 88 for the last 27 years. Before I restored it and converted it from points and condenser to electronic ignition, it was pretty unreliable, but post-restoration it's been downright Honda-like in its reliability.

I owned a 1993 Range Rover County, which I bought in 2000. It was my dream car at the time, but I sold it in 1.5 years because it was the second most unreliable car I've ever owned. Stranded me 200 miles from home when my wife was 8 months pregnant. You can imagine how that went over.

I traded the Range Rover at a huge loss on a brand new 2001 Saab 9^3 that proved even more lemony than the Range Rover. THE WORST CAR I'VE EVER OWNED, BAR NONE. I've owned 3 other Saabs, all pretty good cars, and I've known other 2001 9^3's that weren't lemons, so I'm pretty sure I just got a bad one.

I traded the lemon Saab on a 2005 Subaru Outback. It was a good car, just a little boring though. I kept it for a few years and 25K miles but didn't like the fact that it started using a quart of oil every 3k miles. So I sold it to a co-worker with this disclosure. He proceeded to put another 200,000 miles on the car and had zero trouble with it. He gave it to his daughter many years later, still running and looking good.

My brother had a 2012 Discovery 4 (LR4) that he bought brand new. He owned it for 5 years and had zero problems with it. At the same time, I had a 2012 Toyota 4Runner that I owned for 7 years and 100K miles and had zero problems with. I sold the Toyota to a friend who still has it and has put another 60K on it.

I owned a 2012 Jaguar XK that I bought used with 38K miles on it. One of my favorite cars of all time, and very reliable. Took that car all over the US and Canada and it never let me down. I had done my homework and it turns out the 5 liter V8 is one of Jaguar's most reliable engines. I replaced the water pump on it, but that was it other than oil changes. Jaguar, hardly a company known for building reliable cars and mine was very solidly built and next to perfect.

I sold the Jag and bought a BMW X3 M40i that I have put 20K miles on and it has been flawless. It's also a blast to drive.

I bought a 2020 Jeep Wrangler 2-dr brand new 2.5 years ago and it's been flawless, not giving me one single problem in 25K miles despite Jeep's terrible reputation for quality and reliability. And when I say perfect, I mean this Jeep has been perfect. Not one check engine light, not one death wobble. It's a manual transmission and the base V-6 and has a great driving personality. Shortest turning radius of any car sold in America today, unless I am mistaken. I could u-turn this thing on my sidewalk. My wife and I have taken it on numerous adventures in the back country with no major mods and its off-road capability astounds me, and it's not even the Rubicon. Only thing I added was KO2's.

I placed a reservation for an Ineos Grenadier the first week you could (October 2021) but just recently canceled and got my reservation fee back. Why? Because I decided buying version 1 of anything new and not having local dealer support wasn't a good idea. So I chickened out even though I love the idea of the Grenadier.

And now I have a 2023.5 Defender 110 S on order. It is the 4th model year for this vehicle, which is built in a brand new state of the art factory. The preponderance of evidence, experience, and objective reviews indicate that the new Defender is one of the best, if not the best, car Land Rover has ever built. ****les? Sure. But a complete disaster? No way.

Follow your heart, take care of your mechanical stuff, and enjoy the ride.