https://youtu.be/hSNEGd9RxxQ?si=CiUrBwNFIQ6Ib-Ax
Can’t wait to see LR’s response

 

The old adage...dont throw stones when u live in a glass house. I doubt JLR will respond. And they probably shouldn't. I never like the idea of trying to make someone look bad to make yourself look better. Just my 2c

 

It's a silly thing to do. I'm not sure why Ineos would do this. They are 2 very different vehicles. I own both and enjoy both.

I have owned a 2020 Defender 110 X P400 since it was delivered (COVID) in January of 2021. It has 50K miles on it, has done several long road trips, some medium difficulty off-roading and a lot of fire road travel while pulling a teardrop camper. Other than the open ticket repair on the rear transfer case (which a local dealership botched several times until the other dealership got it right - another story, not the car's fault) there have been zero repairs necessary. It's been a great vehicle, very comfortable on the road, extremely capable off, and still gets a lot of looks even though they're all over the place now. I still love this car.

I have owned a 2024 Ineos Grenadier Trialmaster for about a month now. It has 3K miles on it after driving it home from Sarasota, FL to Minneapolis, MN with my 3 children. No off road experience in this yet but hope to hitch up the camper a few times over the next few months and drive up north to an off road trail in Northern MN. A trip to Utah is being planned for late summer. The Grenadier was great (but very different) on the drive back with zero rattles or some of the other things one hears about. It moves along at 80mph much more easily than I would have guessed. I've started adding some bits and bobs as well as a bull bar, winch and roof rack. I will say this is much easier to do on the Grenadier than on the Defender. This car really gets a lot of looks and if you don't want to answer questions at the gas pump, school drop-off, parking lots, etc don't get one. So far I love this car as well.

Comparing the 2 side by side strikes me as silly. After driving the Grenadier for a couple days and hopping in the Defender, the Defender feels much closer to a RR Sport (which I have owned a couple of) and vice versa. After driving the Defender for a day or 2 the Grenadier feels like a tractor for the first few miles. They are both a lot of fun but they're very different and they're supposed to be. They both have their foibles and strong points. Comparing the 2 is a waste of time and energy. Just enjoy both.

 

A much better comparison would be the INEOS versus the original Defender and not the new one that was launched in 2020. In my opinion, the Ineos is what the original Defender should have become, but the new 2020 Defender is on a completely different playing field. I believe the new Defender is much more refined than the Ineos in terms of looks, comfort, luxury and performance. They are completely different and I do like certain aspects of the Ineos but I would personally choose the new Defender.

 

How many Ineos have been sold? A dozen or two? Have never seen one on the road, yet. Looks like the old Defender, but with an attempt at a more modern interior, it still looks climky, outdated.. Must have a wide dealer network, easy to procure parts, and a slew of technicians that are highly trained to work on them.
No thanks, you’ll have to pull the keys to my Defender from my dying hands. One of the most capable, competent, advanced, yet comfortable vehicles I’ve owned to date.

 

I think its silly. The Grenadier is objectively the worst modern car I've ever driven. I'm beating a dead horse, as I've explained so many times why I really don't like the Ineos, but I'll say it again. The bouncy ride quality, NVH levels, and especially the garbage recirculating ball steering makes it feel like a knock off of a Defender. I genuinely think an old NAS Defender is a nicer car to drive than a Grenadier. The B58 BMW engine is usually absolutely fantastic, but they detuned it so much that it just feels sluggish. 280 horsepower in a near 6200 lb. car just isn't enough. And they detuned it for "reliability" reasons. What a bloody joke - the B58 was developed in collaboration with Toyota, and has proven to be an incredibly reliable engine. Give it an extra 100 horsepower like in BMWs - it so desperately needs it. Despite being sluggish, that powertrain is still buttery smooth and refined, and the ZF 8HP gearbox is well-tuned. I also didn't care for the interior materials. While the interior design and all of the toggle switches are rad, the materials just didn't feel good enough for an $80k vehicle. The lack of a gauge cluster is annoying, especially considering they can put on in, but instead used the space for all of the warning lights. I will also say that the Recaro bucket seats were excellent - comfortable and felt more supportive than the 12-way seats in my Defender. Obviously, there is a very small market for the Grenadier, and I'm sure there are people that enjoy them. My experience is limited to a little over an hour behind the wheel of one that was bought by a friend I play tennis with to replace his L663 110 SE P400. He had it for a little over a week before trading it in on another Defender, this time a 110 X.

Objectively on paper, an L663 110 is more capable off-road than the Grenadier:

Defender 110 on air suspension in off-road height:
Approach angle: 37.5°
Brakeover angle: 27.9°
Departure angle: 40°
Ground clearance: 11.5"
Wading depth: 35.4"

Grenadier:
Approach angle: 25.5°
Brakeover angle: 28.2°
Departure angle: 36.1°
Ground clearance: 10.4"
Wading depth: 31.5"

 

I'm staring down the requirement of buying a new SUV later this year to replace my rusted out sh*tbox of a FJ Cruiser. About 3 weeks ago, I had to get a section of cross member cut off by my mechanic after my wife had spotted it dangling underneath. Needless to say it won't pass inspection come August.

The Ineos is on my list to replace it. So is a used Cayenne, GX and a couple other vehicles I have my eye on but the Grenadier appeals to the requirement that it hauls trash to the dump, takes 2 wet and sandy golden retrievers to the beach and back, and serves as my around-town DD during the salty winter months. I don't need it to go offroad but living where I do, being able to go offroad is a requirement for every vehicle once you get north of Bangor. It also fills the requirement of not being like every other vehicle on the road.

I think Ineos is trying to get some name recognition here. They're doing a bunch of internet marketing - I recently saw that the "overintherover" influencer Tati was loaned a Grenadier to drive on her first trip through America - apparently James May was involved in this marketing as well. So getting the king of controversy Clarkson to "let the foxes amongst the hens" gets people to wag tongues - and maybe find out what a Grenadier is.


Comparing it to the new Defender is smart IMO. We new Defender owners are well aware of its capabilities - but scroll through the online comments section of any video featuring it and you'll inevitably get the "fake defender" .... "mall crawler".... "Chelsey Tractor" ... "nobody offroads those" comments. Whether we like it or not (I certainly don't), the new Defender is seen as the pampered trust fund offspring of the big bad daddy classic Defender still. People who find those old Defender characteristics (outlined by Cincy above) endearing and actually a bonus will look at the Grenadier with more appreciation than perhaps its warranted. Hell, my H1 puts the old Defender to shame as far as NVH, terrible ride quality, poor build quality, shoddy reliability, handling of a barge.... but I still prefer driving it (most times) over the new Defender for those very reasons. This ad is likely targeted at people like me.

Masochistic Idiots with poor taste and even worse judgement :P

Its funny, you can list off all kinds of objective facts about the various capabilities of a given offroad vehicle - and then tell them that its not solid axle and all of a sudden nothing else matters. Its as if people don't realize that lockers and traction control are a thing that have happened and offroading still requires that all 4 tires stay on the ground at all time.
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I think Ineos should be more focused on fixing their numerous issues and satisfying their existing customers before trying to lure more un satisfied customers.

 

Definitely gotta go for an E2 Cayenne GTS with the V8!

Tati started following my page shortly after she started yours, and I had the pleasure of meeting Tati, her sister, and her father when I popped across the pond last year for the Goodwood Festival of Speed. Had a drink with them, too! Great family of true petrolheads.

That being said, I wouldn’t want to drive a Grenadier across the country and sleeping in a tent. As much as I enjoy off-roading and being outside, camping just isn’t my thing. I need a full bathroom and a bed. Maybe I’m soft, but I just can’t live without it.

 

I think it's a pretty great advert for Ineos. Very clever.

Ineos have definitely cut Land Rover's lunch. Perhaps not in sales metrics, but definitely in the ephemeral soul/cool factor of the brand. Defenders are 10 a penny now. It's rare anyone ever waves back to me. There's even a blue and white Defender in my neighborhood. Driver doesn't even seem to notice we have similar rides. Mine's less shiny and usually dirtier and lacks the enormous alloys but still. C'mon man.

LR seem determined to neuter the Defender whenever possible.

They've already canned 18"s, 17"s were never an option unlike every other 3.5T ICE towing platform on the planet. Their focus is most definitely toward their luxury customer base.

Bigger and bigger alloys, more and more horsepower, more shiny stuff, more and more comfort features, less and less dirt-oriented models from which to choose. It's very sad how the model has evolved while deleting the features any older Defender owner would have had at least a passing interest.

Grenadier has really got the enthusiasts enthused. I think it's a fabulous platform.
Recovery points, front and rear as standard
Metal front bumper
Add bullbar in minutes not days
Add a winch without the need for a sawzall
Great tire options from factory
A wheel arch that can accept bigger tires with ease
An OEM ladder that doesn't have the durability of a ham sandwich
A solid metal roof

LR won't reply as they probably don't see Ineos as anything to bother about. And they're probably right. Their majority customer base has no interest in getting their 22" shod, spoiler-bedazzled, Range Rover- lite dirty.