I'm hoping one of the smart people here can help me figure this out.

I have a 2023 P300 110S. Here's the sticker on the door frame.



"The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed ... 825 pounds."

That's not a lot. Four full sized men will hit that pretty quickly, not including any luggage or anything heavy bolted onto the truck such as sliders, a winch, etc.

But if you work your way backward to what should be the same number:

P300 110S curb weight: 4,815 pounds (from the Land Rover website)
P300 110S gross vehicle weight: 6,845 (from the LR website)

That's a difference of 2,030.

So... what gives? Why is the max occupants and cargo weight less than half of the difference between curb weight and GVWR? It's not just the weight of a trailer on the tow bar - that's limited to 771 pounds (also LR website), so there's still a significant difference.

Many thanks,
Mike

 

GVWR is the maximum of all weight that can be added including the tow bar tongue weight and.... the roof rack.

So that 2,000 pound difference between curb weight and gross weight is passengers, fuel, trailer tongue, lunch box, and whatever you put on the roof.

How they come up with a passenger weight is most likely by taking the gross weight and working backwards from every accessory and then leaving the balance to the passenger compartment.
Honestly if there was 825 pounds of human riding around with me I'd say that's probably plenty and we need to draw a line somewhere.

 

The listed GVWR is for the most basic model and includes fluids. Every option added such as air suspension, locking rear diff, towing package, roof racks, side steps, wheel upgrades, etc. adds weight to the vehicle. In your case, it seems that you've added 1,200 lbs of options.

 

That makes sense. I have the P300 with coils, so it should be a lighter engine and suspension. But I added the locking rear differential, tow hitch and steel wheels (heavier than alloy). So those probably ate into the available capacity. I wouldn't have thought that those alone added up to 1,200 pounds, but maybe.

Since then I've added the TuffAnt rock sliders (~148 lbs), a bottle jack kit (34 lbs), an air compressor (24 lbs), and a few other tools and odds and ends. I'm running out of capacity, according to the sticker. If I take one of my young adult sons, I have about 166 lbs left to work with. Not enough for a third adult, and I have two 20-something sons, both well over 6' tall..

And that's without a roof rack, roof top tent, refrigerator, drawer system, stove, and all the other overlanding/camping gear you can bolt onto these things.

I did pick up an offroad trailer last week, so I can put heavier stuff in the trailer to offload the Defender. But it's surprising how fast you run into this.

Are tires included in the GVWR? I realize unsprung weight is its own issue. But the stock Goodyear Adventures at 255/70R18 weigh 38 lbs. My plan when they wore out was to go up a bit to 265/70R18. The Toyo Open Country A/T III in that size is 43 lbs. The new Falken Wildpeak AT4W in that size is 50 lbs. And those are the regular tires not the LT series.

So the Falkens in 265/70R18 would add 12*4=48 pounds more weight compared to the stock Goodyears. That leaves me just 118 pounds left.

... and when TuffAnt comes out with their belly skid plate, I want to add it. That will probably take up all the remaining capacity.

Pretty sobering when you do the math.

@sarek Ralf - do your replacement springs improve cargo capacity/GVWR? Or do they just add ground clearance?

Thanks,
Mike

PS: Wes Siler, columnist for Outside Magazine, has made overloading a major focus for his columns and instagram page. He's always interesting to read.

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoo...-pickup-truck/

 

Following on POPTOPP's diagnosis of the problem, I found this Youtube video from Australia walking through how you get from the assumed available capacity to what you're realistically able to carry. It's sobering.


Yes, the weights are in kilos. We Americans can multiply by 2.2.

He walks through the weight issue at 3:45 in detail.

Steel wheels weight 30 kilos more than alloy.
"Australian Standard Features" (center console etc.), safety gear: 30 kilos
Tow bar and diff lock: 52 kilos
"Parts tolerance" (things don't always weigh what they should): 48 kilos

So that's a lot, and ours are probably similar.

At 9:00 he makes the point that "You can't do a GVM increase on a monocoque chassis." He attributes it to "modification laws" so I don't know if that's an Australian regulatory issue, not a technical issue about the design.

Still, a good overview of the issues.

 

You pose an interesting question about wheels and tires that I hadn't thought about. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that tires and wheels should be a "free" change since it's unsprung weight. With that said, it's certainly included in the GVWR, but weight changes related to tires and wheels may be discounted. Nice video.

Also - I have the TuffAnt sliders also and I'm working with Sarek to install gas tank skid plates. The factory front skids are sufficient for me, I just need something to keep from denting my fuel tanks (again).

 

Yep. No gas tank dents for me (yet) but I put some big dents in the front bash plate and some major scrapes in my TuffAnt sliders. Keeping my eye on the TuffAnt belly pan’s progress, but that’s what started me worrying about all of this in the first place. I’d hate to put so much protection on the thing that I can’t put myself in it to drive it.

 

Resurrecting this post. I finally had a few minutes today to drive to the CAT scale near me to see what my Defender really weighs.

My 2023 110S has a GVWR of 6845 lbs.




Today, with TuffAnt rock sliders, a full tank of gas, my bottle jack in the back (can't use the scissors jack once the sliders are on), the steel wheels that came from the factory and some minor odds and ends in the glove box and console, it weighed 5,440 lbs.



That leaves me 1405 to work with. Much better than the door sticker's 825 lbs.

Enough to add underbody protection, load up my two adult sons (~600 lbs + for the three of us), various recovery and camping supplies, etc.

Makes me very curious about why the door sticker is so ultra-conservative...

 

Does your 110 have rear differential lock and tow package?
The weight on the sticker is based on the number of seats (75 kg per seat), as mentioned in one of my posts.

 

Yup - both the locking rear diff and the tow package. I have some weight built in already. No roof rack though; I got the removeable crossbars instead.

I believe you on the 75kg per seat. It just seems so arbitrary and overconservative. I wonder if a 110 with the rear jump seats shows 525kg (1,155 lbs) vs the 375kg my five-seater shows.