OEM Rail Removal Issues for a Rack
#21
03-02-2021, 07:16 AM
Seems like they were riv nuts to me. I've stripped plenty of bolts in my kart racing days and almost always the bolt will come out. Going back in requires an impact 
. One of the two bolts on mine was very loose and could be spun by hand. If it were stripped threads, the bolts wouldn't spin freely.
. One of the two bolts on mine was very loose and could be spun by hand. If it were stripped threads, the bolts wouldn't spin freely.
#22
03-05-2021, 10:13 AM
Seems like they were riv nuts to me. I've stripped plenty of bolts in my kart racing days and almost always the bolt will come out. Going back in requires an impact . One of the two bolts on mine was very loose and could be spun by hand. If it were stripped threads, the bolts wouldn't spin freely.
. One of the two bolts on mine was very loose and could be spun by hand. If it were stripped threads, the bolts wouldn't spin freely.
#23
03-06-2021, 06:25 AM
Update on my vehicle: Stopped in to check on it yesterday and they had started putting the headliner back up (2 weeks at dealership so far. 6 weeks of ownership...). Turns out these are not exactly riv nuts. They are a sort of threaded insert with flanges that are sandwiched between aluminum panels. They don't rivet into place like a riv nut. The flange on the inside is about 1" in diameter. The foreman said it may be possible to drill a ~1/8'" hole very close to the bolt head through the roof and into the flange of the threaded insert. Then press in a steel pin to hold the threaded insert (maybe even two pins). Which should allow the bolt to be removed. If that works, it would save having to drop the headliner and be a much quicker fix. Either way, you will end up with holes drilled in the roof panel. Note that the threaded inserts are open ended, so any penetrating oil you put on these bolts could easily find its way to the headliner.
#24
03-09-2021, 08:17 AM
Update on my vehicle: Stopped in to check on it yesterday and they had started putting the headliner back up (2 weeks at dealership so far. 6 weeks of ownership...). Turns out these are not exactly riv nuts. They are a sort of threaded insert with flanges that are sandwiched between aluminum panels. They don't rivet into place like a riv nut. The flange on the inside is about 1" in diameter. The foreman said it may be possible to drill a ~1/8'" hole very close to the bolt head through the roof and into the flange of the threaded insert. Then press in a steel pin to hold the threaded insert (maybe even two pins). Which should allow the bolt to be removed. If that works, it would save having to drop the headliner and be a much quicker fix. Either way, you will end up with holes drilled in the roof panel. Note that the threaded inserts are open ended, so any penetrating oil you put on these bolts could easily find its way to the headliner.
this almost makes me want to leave the damn bolts in place. I’m having a custom rack made and they can use a different mounting system at the problem point. Doesn’t sound worth it even if JLR is going to warranty it!
thanks for that info!
#25
03-09-2021, 09:04 AM
Recovery Vehicle
Update on my vehicle: Stopped in to check on it yesterday and they had started putting the headliner back up (2 weeks at dealership so far. 6 weeks of ownership...). Turns out these are not exactly riv nuts. They are a sort of threaded insert with flanges that are sandwiched between aluminum panels. They don't rivet into place like a riv nut. The flange on the inside is about 1" in diameter. The foreman said it may be possible to drill a ~1/8'" hole very close to the bolt head through the roof and into the flange of the threaded insert. Then press in a steel pin to hold the threaded insert (maybe even two pins). Which should allow the bolt to be removed. If that works, it would save having to drop the headliner and be a much quicker fix. Either way, you will end up with holes drilled in the roof panel. Note that the threaded inserts are open ended, so any penetrating oil you put on these bolts could easily find its way to the headliner.
Do you think this might be the case? I am reading up on auto body repair of aluminum vehicles --- we are in a brave, interesting, new world.
Thanks for sharing.
#26
03-15-2021, 03:28 PM
man this sucks. i’m in between the full and half front runner rack. the half rack mounts to the rails and wouldn’t have to possibly deal with all this but after my roof tent i don’t have anymore room on the rack. the full rack is the most practical solution.
do you think heating the bolts or a some type of thread lock dissolvent would of avoided all of this
spoke to Front runner today and they are aware of the issue but not all cars. they said maybe 5 cars had issues out of 40 racks
do you think heating the bolts or a some type of thread lock dissolvent would of avoided all of this
spoke to Front runner today and they are aware of the issue but not all cars. they said maybe 5 cars had issues out of 40 racks
I read of "gluing a special epoxy" to form a non-dielectric, medium/low strength joint between the aluminum sandwich panels and the steel bolt receiver is standard practice now in aluminum auto body construction. The circular receiver you describe sounds like a candidate for this, maybe ?
Do you think this might be the case? I am reading up on auto body repair of aluminum vehicles --- we are in a brave, interesting, new world.
Thanks for sharing.
Do you think this might be the case? I am reading up on auto body repair of aluminum vehicles --- we are in a brave, interesting, new world.
Thanks for sharing.
#27
03-15-2021, 06:43 PM
It would be difficult to get penetrating oil to the threads, since the bolt heads are large and the rails or brackets are under the bolt head. The bolt holes (at least the front two) go straight through, so oil could find its way to the headliner. Heating would probably be the better option. But you have to find a way to heat the bolts without damaging the paint.
#28
03-15-2021, 10:28 PM
doesn’t sound worth the risk. the oem rack issues the oem rails. beside the short front runner and oem is there any other options without removal of the rails
It would be difficult to get penetrating oil to the threads, since the bolt heads are large and the rails or brackets are under the bolt head. The bolt holes (at least the front two) go straight through, so oil could find its way to the headliner. Heating would probably be the better option. But you have to find a way to heat the bolts without damaging the paint.
#29
03-17-2021, 04:39 PM
After two visits to the dealership with zero results, I will probably go with this fix from a Reddit user:
It's not a great solution but I would rather avoid having the vehicle in service for weeks or damaging the roof somehow. In retrospect I would have rather gone with the OEM rack or the shorter one. This has been a damn unnecessary headache...
I ended up making it work with a little elbow grease. Luckily my bolt was about half way unscrewed when the weld on the thread broke so I had a little to work with. I ended up cutting the top off the bolt and secured a coupler to the bolt and then cut the coupler so the height was just under the spacer. I then threaded in a another bolt and then secured the roof rack to that. I put a good bit of sealant around the original bolt and so far no issues. It did secure down tight and I do not expect any issues.
The bolt that broke on mine was front driver side so maybe access to one further back would be easier. Hopefully this helps a bit. I'd be really interested to know what you figure out. Front runner was very responsive but obviously was not about to replace my roof. It seems they are just starting to realize this is going to be a more wide spread issue.
The bolt that broke on mine was front driver side so maybe access to one further back would be easier. Hopefully this helps a bit. I'd be really interested to know what you figure out. Front runner was very responsive but obviously was not about to replace my roof. It seems they are just starting to realize this is going to be a more wide spread issue.
#30
04-21-2021, 04:48 PM
I don’t know If I just got lucky, but as the first step in installing my Voyager rack, I just removed all the roof rail bolts with an impact wrench, and all came out fine. I tried heating one bolt with a solder gun, but it would have taken way too long per bolt to make a difference so I decided to go with the shock and awe approach. Saw somewhere that an impact wrench is better than a slow twist by hand at loosening bolts into rivnuts as a quick jolt is believed to lessen the chance of the rivnut slipping. Did a short chant to the rivnut gods before each one, but not even a hint of a problem. All came right out. No guarantee this will work for all Defenders, but it certainly worked for me. Popped the Voyager on and all in all it was about a fifteen minute install.