Our D90 with 7,000k miles went in for service today with a check engine light (Code P043E EVAP System Leak detection). I checked the gas cap a couple times since it came on and drove it for another 30-40 miles with the light, after which I just scheduled an appointment. About 1/4 mile from the dealer this morning it turned off (in classic Murphy's law fashion)... Anyway, still took it in so they can read the codes and see if anything needed taking care of it. Since the car was already there and I have limited time these days, I also asked them to change the oil, as I am not a believer in the whole 21,000 mile service interval, this the first oil change and the car has done its fair share of offroading in very dusty places.

Now for the actual questions: the dealer quoted me $300 for the oil change (which I know it's outrageous and I can do myself, but I am pressed for time these days and can't do it, so effectively paying them for my lack of time). The service order indicates 10qts of oil, an oil filter and an oil plug (which based on my quick research works to be about $80 in parts, making it harder to swallow the $300 charge...), now:

• Does this thing actually take 10qts of oil (P300 engine)?
• Do they actually change the plug these days? I was assuming dealers use oil extractors to perform oil changes, but I might be wrong, so honestly curious. I typically do my own oil changes the good old way (via the drain plug), but have been considering an extractor, so ultimately want to know what is best.

 

10 qts is about what the P400 takes.

These are the capacities from the P300 workshop manual.


And the workshop manual specifies using an oil extractor.

 

It is good you are changing your oil -- never a bad thing. Several on the forum change it every 7500 miles. So, you are not unusual.

A full drain from the bottom oil and filter change on P300 takes closer to 8 Qts than 10 Qts. I suspect they costed your change as a P400, which takes near to 10 qts (I recall)?

To change the oil from the bottom requires removal of a couple large skid plates -- probably adds 30+ minutes to remove reinstall. So, this is $80 USD or so of your cost.

If you have the covers off, yes by all means used a fresh bolt and washer at the drain.

The oil is expensive. By the quart is approximately $ 25 to $30 USD per quart -- so that is another $250 or so of cost -- but you are using bulk oil, so let's call it $150 of oil.

$150 (oil) + $80 prep/finish labor + $70 for the filter, plug and the labor of the oil filter and pumping -- and you are at $300.

All numbers are just a guess -- but, it adds up.

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Yes, they may use an extractor one supposes. In which case, remove the cost of the bottom bolt and washer, at a minimum ....

Enjoy !

 

Thanks! So seems the dealers are instructed to use an extractor (as per the shop manual), so my idea of getting one makes sense. Any drawbacks from using that method vs the plug method?

@TrioLRowner have not really looked underneath the car much, but other cars that I have seen with under shields make the oil drain plug easily accessible (to avoid having to remove stuff to change the oil), from your comment seems that is not the case for the Defender?

 

Trio is correct. you have to remove 50 bolts to get to the drain plug underneath the Defender. The one thing I have found, this is my first LR, is that I was treated differently when I pushed back on their boilerplate answers. My dealer was not even going to look at my front shocks until I physically showed them the technical bulletin. Once I pushed back they have been more agreeable on conversations. I paid around 270 for the oil change in my P300 and like you, it's a time thing. I would just ask why the manual says you should extract the oil with a vacuum but you are draining it from the bottom. See what they say

 

Not that I want to think the worse about dealers, but I wonder if they are using an extractor, but charging as if they had used the plug method and maximize their profit. Honestly I would prefer that is what they do instead of taking the under shield off. My dealer has proven it is incapable of torquing lug nuts properly (they over-tighten like there is no tomorrow), so not sure I trust them to take anything else apart. It is a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t: want to service the car at the dealer for piece of mind but don’t trust them to do even the most basic thing right…

 

I experienced many LR3 oil changes that could only be done by removing the skid plate and it's 15 rusted bolts to get at the drain plug & filter. Followed by many LR4 extraction oil changes that took about 15 minutes to complete. No wonder I had no issues with changing the LR4 oil every 5K miles. Once you use an extractor you will never go back to removing the skid plate and crawling underneath. And with less time and labor, the end result is a better maintained vehicle.

As for the lug nuts, I do my own tire rotations and winter tire changes so I know the lug nuts are set to the correct torque. If I know the dealer will be removing a tire to work on my car, I have them specify on the work order to put the lug nuts back on by hand using a torque wrench and not an air tool.

 

I was quoted $170 for a simple oil change at the dealership however that was just at the time of taking delivery by the sales guy who said he personally would not wait the 20,000 miles, he'd bring it in no later than 10,000. That may or may not have been an accurate cost quote, I was a little doubtful, I'll say that. Anyway I purchased the scheduled maintenance which covers the first two.

 

The 2020+ Defender workshop manual doesn't even give instructions for oil changes from the bottom through the drain plug, it only details the oil extractor procedure from the top of the engine. I am 99.99% sure that's how every dealer performs oil changes on these vehicles, they won't touch (or charge you for) the drain plug. Especially since it's been documented how thoroughly the oil pan is dried up of used oil when using the extraction method - someone with an LR4 actually went through the trouble of vacuuming the oil with an extractor first, and then removing skid plates and the drain plug of the sump to see if there were any meaningful quantities of oil still in there. He could not even manage to get a single drop of oil to drip out after removing the drain plug.

 

Closing the loop here. Just picked our car at the dealer. On the check engine light front, since it turned off before getting there, not much happened. They read the codes and nothing came up (strange as when I read them one of them showed as permanent, which as I understand it means that even if the anomaly goes away the code would still be stored). Anyway… back to oil. They put 8 qts of oil, filter and drain plug and list 0.7 hrs of labor. Labor seems high for the change using an extractor (which the SA confirmed is the method they use), but low for doing the whole removal of under shield. I asked the SA why if they extract the oil, they change the plug. He had no idea. I could have had him bring a technician to explain, but honestly for the $7 they charge for the plug it is not worth it and the SA has gone to bat for me in the past so don’t want to burn that bridge. All in all paid $246 for the change, which is worth me saving the time. I will be buying an extractor though.

Over and out!