Its no secret developing the 2nd gen Defender was one of the most polarizing projects in automotive history. Many believe Land Rover flunked the task. As someone who has years of corporate experience I can assure you your engineer friends had to work between corporate guardrails that hindered the heart and soul they put into the project. Unfortunately all auto manufactures sans Toyota (specifically 70 series land cruisers 20 year life) build their vehicles with a 10 year life span in mind, so unfortunately they are designed to eventually break. Why are there thousands of Toyotas with 300k+ miles and original motors and very few 300k+ Land Rovers with original motors? Is Toyota that much better at building cars? Again, why do you change your oil every 5k miles if land rover recommends 21k?

 

My 2008 Range Rover had 261k miles on it when I traded it and it was still running strong with the original engine and transmission. If you did not look at the odometer, you would think that is was much newer with very few miles.
Your statement about Land Cruisers is somewhat misguided. Most Land Cruisers I have had experience with in different parts of the world needed a new transmission after 80-90k miles. But I agree with you that all vehicles are built with a goal of a 10 years life span. It is sad that many people believe Land Rover has flunked the task. Land Rover has continuously improved their vehicles throughout the years in my humble opinion. I have owned Land Rovers since 1982, and if you maintain them religiously, they will behave and serve you well, sort of like you treat your wife or mistress; mistreat them and they will throw a tantrum fit...lol...

 

There are plenty of LR3s, L320 RR Sports and L322 RRs out there with 300k+ miles. The 21k is for serviceability. Less trips to the dealer for an oil change is easier on the customer. Why do I change my oil every 5k? Because it is my car and I can do what I want with it. Am I throwing away money? Probably. Do I care? Not really. But I am taking care of my car in hope I won’t have any serious problems. It has worked in the past, so why not keep doing it?

With all due respect, if reliability is a big concern for you (and based on this conversation, it is), then a Defender is probably not the right choice for you. JLR doesn't have the best reputation as we all know, but their current products are the best they've done, and aren't any more or less reliable than any equivalent European brand, which always require more maintenance and have higher running costs than anything Toyota or Lexus makes. I've had mine nearly four years and it has been flawless other than needing a new fuel pump computer a month after I took delivery. You'll love it, but don't expect it to be a Toyota.

I'm done with this silly argument.

Cheers

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I typically buy used luxury vehicles, but have decided to go new new with the defender, I'm hoping to prove the stigma wrong by doing exactly as you said "maintaining (it) religiously." There is something special about land rover especially when compared to Toyota. I loved my 97 discovery even though I felt like it was going to blow up at 160k miles. I have the opportunity to purchase a lexus GX Overtrail with the TT V6 for the same exact price as my P300 defender. Even though it is much easier to fit 35s, has more power and the toyota/lexus reliability, I'm drawn towards the defender, really without question.

 

My old Defender could last 30, 40, 50 years easy. I'm sure it's still out there somewhere (come back!). But my new one is a 10 year car. It's vastly better designed and built in virtually every way, but the electronics will kill it. Not by design, but due to the extremely expensive and ever-increasing cost of keeping it all in order, and by the future desirability of turbo-rapidly-developing new technologies.

 

I wish I could share this sentiment...I picked up my pre-owned 2016 LR4 in 2019 with roughly 30k miles and treated her very well with a reputable indy mechanic. Oil changes every 6-8K miles at maximum with no more than 7-8 months between (mostly city driving so the miles didn't pile up fast). All told in the past ~2 years below were my visits for repairs/maintenance (for reference, mileage in this period was roughly 60 - 80K miles):

$2700 - Coolant Pipes Replacement
$2785 - Gas Tank Replacement (last resort for a stubborn evap code) + Brakes + Oil Change
$4300 - Failed Alternator + AC Condensor (Alternator belt took out the AC unit on it's way out ) which left me and family stranded 200+ miles from home
$2500 - Brakes, Oil Change, Xfer Fluid, Trans Fluid
$525 - PCV Valve Replacement
$6500 - Oil Change, Diff Fluid, Full Valve Cover Replacement (for leaking oil)
$1500 - Radiator Fan Replacement
$950 - Coolant Temp Sensors (Front + Rear)

To save folks doing the math, that is almost north of $22K in 2 years. Obviously a chunk of that is maintenance but predominantly repairs. The last item was the final kick in the butt for me to trade in on a Defender 130 and let sunk cost be sunk cost. Very happy to be under warranty again and planning to maintain this vehicle at a high standard with hopes it is a different experience (who knows, perhaps the LR4 was abused in the 3 years it existed before I got her). For now very happy to be under warranty again

 

Folks, I am not preaching that LR vehicles are not prone to failures. These are machines and they are all prone to failures. Every OEM will produce bad apples from time to time. Just look at all the recent engine failures of Toyota and Lexus and the subsequent recalls of Toyota and Lexus. No OEM is immune to failures of machines that are built by humans and robots. I have had bad apples in the past from various brands including Land Rover, Mercedes, BMW, Chevrolet and Ford. Some were bought back by the OEM, and the others were sold or traded in. It is the nature of the beast...

 

Land Rover has a reputation for a reason. My wife posted a TikTok of me building my spec at the dealership. Three separate random people commented “dont do it.” I guarantee if I was at a bmw, Porsche, Mercedes, etc etc etc dealership she would not have gotten those comments.

 

All of this talk of reliability should be taken with a grain of salt. ALL modern brands have their own bag of issues. Toyota and Lexus is dealing with a major engine recall right now. When if EVER has JLR had to recall their cars for total engine failure? Porsche had recalls on the GT3 engine and prevalent issues with bore scoring across different models. I myself, had a total engine failure on my Macan S from bore scoring. Our 2017 Toyota Sienna suffered from a total transmission failure. No car brand is immune from mechanical issues nowadays, not even the famed Toyota/Lexus.

 

Amen! Let the truth be known. You can go on a bunch of forums for different car brands and you will read a lot of stories with problems, lemons, and OEM buybacks. With the same token, there are also a bunch of owners who have never been on a forum. If Land Rover truly had a bad reputation, how in the world is it still in business, producing cars, have a long list of orders and back orders? I waited 20 months for my Range Rover to arrive, and I am very happy with it. My Defender has been bullet proof with no issues at all. The reputation thing is a bad stigma in my opinion and loyal owners do not care and will continue buying Land Rover products.