2020 Defender Talk about the new 2020 Land Rover Defender
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Old Aug 14, 2024 | 02:23 AM
  #11  
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I have heard from several engineers at JLR that they actually prefer the Defender 110 P300 over the P400 as it is more agile. The extra weight of the P400 in combination with the weight distribution make it a little sluggish.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2024 | 06:39 PM
  #12  
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The P300 is a surprisingly strong engine. Amazing, really. It's plenty grunty enough for my 90 for sure.

The P400 is obviously stronger still, and might be a better match to the larger and heavier 110 if the extra $10k isn't a big factor. I drove one to compare, and while it is snappier, it's in no way necessary. Is it worth the $10k price penalty anyway? Eh, that's a matter of opinion.

One thing to think about with the P400: It's a mild hybrid system with a turbocharger plus an electric supercharger, so it's significantly more complex with a lot more things to go wrong. The maintenance and repair bills are likely to be higher down the road.

(My heart was set on the steel wheels and white roof, and that limited me to the P300, but like you I thought I'll throw the savings into some nice-to-have options instead. In that category, I particularly recommend the extended Windsor leather as a classy improvement over the problematic "resist" material or the exceedingly-cheap base leather.)
 

Last edited by Zondar; Aug 14, 2024 at 06:50 PM.
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Old Aug 14, 2024 | 07:57 PM
  #13  
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I have no regrets with my 2021 P300 I have over 79K miles and it has been flawless, knock on wood. I bought mine in Germany since I was stationed there and the European warranty offered at the time was 3 years or 60K. I have no issues with power or passing. When I was Germany, had no issues on the autobahn cruising at 115 MPH in Bavaria. Didn't want to go any faster since my tires were rated at 130 mph.
 
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Old Aug 14, 2024 | 10:58 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by lrFFM
I have heard from several engineers at JLR that they actually prefer the Defender 110 P300 over the P400 as it is more agile. The extra weight of the P400 in combination with the weight distribution make it a little sluggish.
Possibly on a racetrack, but in real life - I'd question it. P300 has a noticeable turbo lag but then goes nuts once the turbo kicks in, you have to be controlling it very well to get the advantage of said agility, and I can't really imagine where on the street or offroad you can do that.

On the other hand, P400 is very responsive (130 P400 felt more alive than 110 P300).

Having said that, even P300 is more than adequate. It just has a different character.
 

Last edited by Vadiable Paradox; Aug 15, 2024 at 01:35 AM.
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Old Aug 15, 2024 | 08:40 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Vadiable Paradox
Possibly on a racetrack, but in real life - I'd question it. P300 has a noticeable turbo lag but then goes nuts once the turbo kicks in, you have to be controlling it very well to get the advantage of said agility, and I can't really imagine where on the street or offroad you can do that.

On the other hand, P400 is very responsive (130 P400 felt more alive than 110 P300).

Having said that, even P300 is more than adequate. It just has a different character.
Funnily enough that's the reason why I went with the P300. I was dead set on getting the P400, but when I drove one for the first time, I was incredibly disappointed with the throttle response. You put you foot down and the thing was dead under 2000 rpm, then it hit you in the face and pulled hard all the way to redline. That shouldn't be happening with an MHEV, as the electric motor and e-supercharger are supposed to provide torque fill while the turbo spools up. I then drove a P300, which had noticeable turbo lag under 2500 rpm when you floor it. Otherwise, It wasn't noticeable at all. I ended up going with the P300, because I couldn't stand the throttle programming of the P400. Now, the P400 no longer has that issue, as the first ones I drove were 2020MY vehicles. I have driven several 2023MY and 2024MY Defenders I had as service loaners, and the throttle response on those were linear and predictable. I don't plan on replacing my P300, but if I did, I'd probably go with the P400. Despite this, the P300 is still a solid engine - I have no regrets and I'd happily own another one.

Also, I don't know if anyone has driven a P300 F-Pace, but the NVH levels of the engine in the Jag is atrocious. It feels like an unrefined, rattly-*** four-cylinder at startup, idle and lower rpm. I have driven multiple F-Pace models with the P300 engine over the years and they have all been the same. In the Defender (and other JLR products) it is super smooth and refined. I honestly can't believe it is the same engine.
 
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Old Aug 15, 2024 | 05:58 PM
  #16  
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I was cross shopping the GX550 when I was looking at the Defender. The interior seemed a little cheap in the GX. I liked the large central screen, but the trim and wood pieces felt plasticky. Personally I like the exterior of the GX except for the dirty diaper looking cover for the tow hook. What really turned me off was the markup. The dealers around me either had markups or they would add on about $15k wroth of BS that you couldn't opt out of. After driving both the GX and the Defender and I loved the way the Defender drove. Night and day difference in ride comfort. My mom has a new RX350h and the driver monitoring system in her new RX is too much of a nanny IMO. I have zero regrets going with the Defender.
 
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Old Aug 16, 2024 | 11:34 AM
  #17  
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As another that has recently acquired a Defender, i was also cross shopping it with the GX 550. Factors that leaned heavily on the Defender's side were the additional room in the rear, lack of carpeting, and the subjective unique quality of a Land Rover vs a Lexus. Also subjectively, I leaned more towards the Defender's overall styling, especially the interior. For me, the interior of the Lexus looked too ... Lexus? A couple of the larger negatives to the GX 550 may be addressed as time goes on, but for the here and now - limited availability and the ADM that goes along with that and as previously mentioned by D110Xd - the treatment of the tow receiver. Not only is it an eyesore, it is held on by clips, looks completely unfinished when it it off, and has a limited amount of room for the hitch pin. Hopefully, they address this in the future. So far, we have been very happy with the Defender.

As for P300 vs P400, cannot really comment. Once we had narrowed it down to the Defender, we were drawn to the 130 Outbound. This trim is only offered with the P400
 
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Old Aug 16, 2024 | 03:04 PM
  #18  
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"I have heard from several engineers at JLR that they actually prefer the Defender 110 P300 over the P400 as it is more agile. The extra weight of the P400 in combination with the weight distribution make it a little sluggish."

Nope. That's ill informed and I don't think even close to being correct -- t's a bit of horse**** to say the P400 is sluggish. It's lively and powerful. I would describe the motor as many things and none of them would come close to "sluggish". It also doesn't screw up the weight distribution ...

I've driven platforms where larger motors do exactly what is being said here, but the Defender 110 w/ P400 is not one of them.
 
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Old Aug 17, 2024 | 08:15 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by CincyRovers
Funnily enough that's the reason why I went with the P300. I was dead set on getting the P400, but when I drove one for the first time, I was incredibly disappointed with the throttle response. You put you foot down and the thing was dead under 2000 rpm, then it hit you in the face and pulled hard all the way to redline. That shouldn't be happening with an MHEV, as the electric motor and e-supercharger are supposed to provide torque fill while the turbo spools up. I then drove a P300, which had noticeable turbo lag under 2500 rpm when you floor it. Otherwise, It wasn't noticeable at all. I ended up going with the P300, because I couldn't stand the throttle programming of the P400. Now, the P400 no longer has that issue, as the first ones I drove were 2020MY vehicles.
Confirmed; the immediacy of P400 throttle response in difficult offroad mountain conditions is what sold me on it. Like I said elsewhere, I drive stick (even the JKU Recon was a six speed), and P400 is the first automatic platform in my life that I felt at home with. It just does what I want it to do.

Side note, that's also why I prefer to buy vehicles as late in the manufacturing cycle as possible - most of the generation kinks were ironed out by then. Hopefully, MY2025 is mature enough.

Originally Posted by CincyRovers
I have driven several 2023MY and 2024MY Defenders I had as service loaners, and the throttle response on those were linear and predictable. I don't plan on replacing my P300, but if I did, I'd probably go with the P400. Despite this, the P300 is still a solid engine - I have no regrets and I'd happily own another one.
Also confirmed; the only complaint about P300 I have is it is being quirky - but that's the turbo for you, take it or leave it. Leaves me wishing for the BMW turbo tuning, though - there, the lag is smooth and predictable. Note to self: read up on P300 turbo implementation - it is also a dual, how come the kick in is so sharp?
 
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Old Aug 17, 2024 | 02:53 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Vadiable Paradox
Confirmed; the immediacy of P400 throttle response in difficult offroad mountain conditions is what sold me on it. Like I said elsewhere, I drive stick (even the JKU Recon was a six speed), and P400 is the first automatic platform in my life that I felt at home with. It just does what I want it to do.

Side note, that's also why I prefer to buy vehicles as late in the manufacturing cycle as possible - most of the generation kinks were ironed out by then. Hopefully, MY2025 is mature enough.


Also confirmed; the only complaint about P300 I have is it is being quirky - but that's the turbo for you, take it or leave it. Leaves me wishing for the BMW turbo tuning, though - there, the lag is smooth and predictable. Note to self: read up on P300 turbo implementation - it is also a dual, how come the kick in is so sharp?
I hear this a lot but I personally have zero faith in these mahouts. Let me know when the heated steering wheel finally comes on with remote start in the winter. I suspect we'll all be flying around like the jetsons by then.
 
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