can you clarify and defend [intended] this position a little? What is ‘fantastic’ off road performance for a stock 4x4 for you?

Now my Defender isn’t exactly stock (l8 sliders and 265/70/18 MT tires) but no lift and it’s handily outperforming my stock Black Diamond Bronco on the Moab rocks so far (no more than 6/10 technical rating from onX so far though), and I’d wager it’d at least match a stock Rubicon Jeep or Badlands Bronco without the 35” + lift options.

is the expectation that the defender will couple land rover on-road performance, with a top overlanding platform, and a fully optioned Rubicon’s rock-crawling capabilities all at once? Serious question.

For the record I do agree with the general consensus that more flexibility in the platform, esp in terms of the tire sizes that’ll actually fit in the wheel wells and wheel sizes that fit around the brakes, would be great.

 

You support and defend my position in your position.

Your LR is an incredibly capable OR vehicle in every single stock configuration, except one, wheels and or sliders.

Therefore, if it came with said equipment stock, it would do exactly what it was designed to do, and do it really damn well.

 

my wheels are stock 18s though, and the rubber around them is not significantly bigger than oem (i also dont consider oem tires to be a significant factor when discussing ‘stock configuration’ given they are usually just adequate for all vehicles and are a wear item). And the sliders have yet to actually get use, i havent touched them down anywhere while my Bronco has been scraping it’s armor much more on the same lines.

im all for more options/accessories/etc, i just dont agree that the defender is ‘not fantastic’ off road stock unless expectations are sky high.

Do you expect the high end models optimized for highway driving with the towing capacity of a base F150 (so p400 in the states) to drive straight off the lot into moderate/difficult technical rock crawling? A p300 on 18s will do it…

again i agree with the general sentiment that more platform flexibility would be great, especially so we could actually build our rigs to be significantly better offroad without mid-5 figure costs (not to mention the compromises the bigger subframe lifts cost), I just think the internet hyperbole has gone too far, and a stock defender is extremely capable off road, especially if you configure it to be so (p300, 18s, rear locker, air suspension arguably)

 

I guess what I’m trying to say is that insisting that the stock Defender isn’t a top offroader (compared to wranglers and broncos) is hyperbolic and distracts from what I think is the main problem the Defender has when talking offroad capabilities: the fact that you have to do this to significantly increase those capabilities.





33s would be great, but if thats all that happens its not going to close the build gap. Not that i actually expect jlr to do any engineering to make the aftermarket’s lives easier

 

There is one pivotal fault that LR chose for no conceivable reason, and that is what this entire thread appears to be about. Why they would abandon the capability of 18" wheels on their models, when inside their parts bin is the solution, the disco calipers.

The suspension, the driveline, the tech on the Defender is great for all the reasons you listed. But all of that has to transfer through one point of contact, or four, the tires.

 

Agreed, Paradigm. All the gee whiz off-road tech in the world doesn't mean squat if you've ripped the tires off the wheels a half mile up the trail. I'd gladly trade a couple of acronyms for some beefy 33" all-terrains mounted on 18s.

Perhaps the introduction of the H.M.S. Defender, aka the 130 will usher in some larger tires that will proliferate across the range? That thing will look ridiculous if it stays on the 32s.

 

[QUOTE=GavinC;824128]On the snorkel, it's not so much that you want to go much deeper but at 900mm any sort of bow wave is going to run the risk of water ingress. It adds a safety feature to crossings you lose without one. You might encounter a hole where you go deeper for a little bit. Either way, it's peace of mind.

Gavin, just ask the wife for a boat instead of trying to turn the Defender into a boat.

 

Sounds dangerous.

We should test our sea-legs at Tahuya this weekend.

 

On the future 130, I'm all for moving the spare tire underneath and having a split tailgate like the LR4. I know this kills departure angle but most serious rock climbers will want a 90 or 110 anyway. I miss having a top tailgate to get under when loading groceries into the cargo area in the pouring rain. Bottom split tailgate was always handy as a bench to sit on. Plus you can drop the bottom tailgate down as an extension when bringing home 8' lumber.

 

That would be great, but all the images and such Ive seen have it specd like my 110x 380mm brakes, and that means we are at least stuck with 20's, hopefully some more wheel well?