95 D1 stumbling hot restart problems
Chris,
so true without knowing the engines tested.
My Ford 454 FE engine is a big hunk if cast iron requiring 2o minutes to get fully heated.
The Rover warms up rather quick being aluminum.
The real extreme I find is the wife's 2010 Ford Escape 3.0 litre V6, cold start 45*F idle drops down from 800 to 550 within 28-32 seconds, let idle another minute then slowly drive to the corner 600' away. By the next two short blocks 400' long each at 15 mph the engine is at normal temp.
This must decrease wear by a large amount with thermal expansion aluminum against steel parts, totally unreal.
Today I talked to San Jose Rover another Rover service tech friend and Rover hot rodder at heart that knows me and my D1.
He was stumped then had his sharpest tech person come to the phone.
I told him a 95 D1 with hot start stumbling problem, his quick reply, "oh a 95 D1, JUNK IT!" Yeah that was great advice. His azz will be in trouble as I sent my intake photos to the service manager then he called me with questions. I told him the exact wording, he's pissed, "action will be taken".
Granted Rover dealerships want 0-5 year old vehicles to make money off on repairs and service not older ones.
Prost.
so true without knowing the engines tested.
My Ford 454 FE engine is a big hunk if cast iron requiring 2o minutes to get fully heated.
The Rover warms up rather quick being aluminum.
The real extreme I find is the wife's 2010 Ford Escape 3.0 litre V6, cold start 45*F idle drops down from 800 to 550 within 28-32 seconds, let idle another minute then slowly drive to the corner 600' away. By the next two short blocks 400' long each at 15 mph the engine is at normal temp.
This must decrease wear by a large amount with thermal expansion aluminum against steel parts, totally unreal.
Today I talked to San Jose Rover another Rover service tech friend and Rover hot rodder at heart that knows me and my D1.
He was stumped then had his sharpest tech person come to the phone.
I told him a 95 D1 with hot start stumbling problem, his quick reply, "oh a 95 D1, JUNK IT!" Yeah that was great advice. His azz will be in trouble as I sent my intake photos to the service manager then he called me with questions. I told him the exact wording, he's pissed, "action will be taken".
Granted Rover dealerships want 0-5 year old vehicles to make money off on repairs and service not older ones.
Prost.
In auto shop I was taught that the hotter you can run a engine without melting it the better the MPG and the longer it will last.
The DI came with a 192*F t-stat from the factory, so the Rover engineers, as much as some of you guys hate them they were actually pretty genius, knew what they were doing and running a 180 or lower has a negative effect.
How many headgaskets are you guys replacing?
Mine are still original, I have a 195*F t-stat.
And now for the big question Beir Nut, what model GM door latches fit our trucks? I know they are already GM, since it is stamped right on them, but what year and model? I've searched the web for days and cannot find out the cross reference.
The DI came with a 192*F t-stat from the factory, so the Rover engineers, as much as some of you guys hate them they were actually pretty genius, knew what they were doing and running a 180 or lower has a negative effect.
How many headgaskets are you guys replacing?
Mine are still original, I have a 195*F t-stat.
And now for the big question Beir Nut, what model GM door latches fit our trucks? I know they are already GM, since it is stamped right on them, but what year and model? I've searched the web for days and cannot find out the cross reference.
Chris,
so true without knowing the engines tested.
My Ford 454 FE engine is a big hunk if cast iron requiring 2o minutes to get fully heated.
The Rover warms up rather quick being aluminum.
The real extreme I find is the wife's 2010 Ford Escape 3.0 litre V6, cold start 45*F idle drops down from 800 to 550 within 28-32 seconds, let idle another minute then slowly drive to the corner 600' away. By the next two short blocks 400' long each at 15 mph the engine is at normal temp.
This must decrease wear by a large amount with thermal expansion aluminum against steel parts, totally unreal.
Today I talked to San Jose Rover another Rover service tech friend and Rover hot rodder at heart that knows me and my D1.
He was stumped then had his sharpest tech person come to the phone.
I told him a 95 D1 with hot start stumbling problem, his quick reply, "oh a 95 D1, JUNK IT!" Yeah that was great advice. His azz will be in trouble as I sent my intake photos to the service manager then he called me with questions. I told him the exact wording, he's pissed, "action will be taken".
Granted Rover dealerships want 0-5 year old vehicles to make money off on repairs and service not older ones.
Prost.
so true without knowing the engines tested.
My Ford 454 FE engine is a big hunk if cast iron requiring 2o minutes to get fully heated.
The Rover warms up rather quick being aluminum.
The real extreme I find is the wife's 2010 Ford Escape 3.0 litre V6, cold start 45*F idle drops down from 800 to 550 within 28-32 seconds, let idle another minute then slowly drive to the corner 600' away. By the next two short blocks 400' long each at 15 mph the engine is at normal temp.
This must decrease wear by a large amount with thermal expansion aluminum against steel parts, totally unreal.
Today I talked to San Jose Rover another Rover service tech friend and Rover hot rodder at heart that knows me and my D1.
He was stumped then had his sharpest tech person come to the phone.
I told him a 95 D1 with hot start stumbling problem, his quick reply, "oh a 95 D1, JUNK IT!" Yeah that was great advice. His azz will be in trouble as I sent my intake photos to the service manager then he called me with questions. I told him the exact wording, he's pissed, "action will be taken".
Granted Rover dealerships want 0-5 year old vehicles to make money off on repairs and service not older ones.
Prost.
I have noticed that the D1 warms up rather quickly. My problem is I only have 40 miles of road here, and I live 1 mile from work. The D1 only gets about 1500 miles each year. I would love to get out on a highway and cruise for an hour or two. I think it would solve most of my problems(except the death wobble).
I hated working with techs like that. That's why I got out of dealerships.
I have noticed that the D1 warms up rather quickly. My problem is I only have 40 miles of road here, and I live 1 mile from work. The D1 only gets about 1500 miles each year. I would love to get out on a highway and cruise for an hour or two. I think it would solve most of my problems(except the death wobble).
I have noticed that the D1 warms up rather quickly. My problem is I only have 40 miles of road here, and I live 1 mile from work. The D1 only gets about 1500 miles each year. I would love to get out on a highway and cruise for an hour or two. I think it would solve most of my problems(except the death wobble).
Check the color then go on a 2 hour highway run it will clear up a bit besides boil out the water and acids.
I run Hastings 426 oil filters, cotton fiber material 9" long that will hold 1 qt if filled before installing. I rather install dry keeping away from oil messes let the pre-oil fill and pressurize before starting.
A friends 96 D1 with black oil plus a clacking lifter I installed a Hasting filter, a couple days and 200 miles later the oil became light brown. A can of lifter lube and a week driving the lifter went silent, an oil change plus another Hasting filter installed. It's been a year now the lifter is quiet plus cleaner oil checks.
Fram filters are crap, don't even think of using one they pass dirt plus drain back, sad as they were good 15 -20 years ago. (oops another filter flame war). Please not.
At 140K miles the steering damper is OEM about dead by now, swivel bearings checked and reshimed as needed, I collected extras from Pick N Pull. They come in different thickness. You run the upgraded grease for the swivel joints vs gear lube? I installed 1 1/2 shots per/side not just one and never had problems, extra lube is good JMO.
Wheel bearings cleaned, checked, repacked and torqued to spec. Damn special socket but well worth owning, KD tools has it.
With 255/65/16 Michelins on stock rims I have never had a wheel wobble or ever detected any. This at speed on doen to 20 mph over train tracks at a slight angle or concrete freeway step almost parallel crossing over.
I would cure that problem ASAP if my Rover. I should know riding bikes 50 years more with more than once on a POS of a tank slapper once in the dirt at 50 and I went down hard.
BTW, these Rover steering boxes are a POS (flame war I can hear it now).
The box a Bendix loser Ford admitted by design used only on Ford pickups 67 to early 69 until Ford had an replacement available. First thing any "Bumpside" (67 to 72 PU) owner would do was chit can the Bendix, it's in every Ford Truck Forum.
The pickups input shaft seal would leak a faulty design besides twitchy at speed above 50 mph. Seal rebuild kits $153 each now NLA in 2000. Even a perfect box mechanically like my 69K mile 68 PU that leaked due to age with shafts like chrome still failed months later and two times.
The Ford replacement box used many years has seal kits but they do not leak plus the twitchy steering at speed is also removed. Rock solid in the 120 to 135 mph zone. Top speed junkie here, 153 the next target with a 520" MPI FE engine build.
Sad part Ford sold this exact box with its problems to Rover.
I checked adjustment once when first purchased after the PO had dealership 60K checkup as the dealership preloaded it too high. Checked it again at 130K with a minor adjustment. Pitman arm must be removed to measure the tight spot torque numbers vs off center plus the input and piston rack pad adjustment. The only Rover leaks i've had are the HP and return hoses both replaced three times and still dry. First time OMG the box is leaking, solvent spray down, nope just a hose.
Inside the PS reservoir is a metal baffle disk a perfect spot to add a big rare earth magnet to collect normal wear iron dust. One good feature replacing the hoses allows for draining and fluid changes.
On the GM door latches all I have are the part numbers out of my parts department book.
Lock spring failures a common problem, England has a company with HD replacements a set for all 5 doors rather cheap. I replaced 2, the rear cargo door is next and a can of worms, tons of linkage.
Tomorrow a 160 mile highway loop, Rover going for a ride, i'm feeling lucky. Tow strap with friends along the way in case of a fuel pump failure and tow.
Nap time, later.
Last edited by BierNut; Feb 9, 2012 at 02:56 AM.
To drive any more than that, I would need to take a 6 hour ferry ride to BC, Canada, or ship my vehicle on a barge to somewhere else. Sucks in that regard.
Today I talked to San Jose Rover another Rover service tech friend and Rover hot rodder at heart that knows me and my D1.
He was stumped then had his sharpest tech person come to the phone.
I told him a 95 D1 with hot start stumbling problem, his quick reply, "oh a 95 D1, JUNK IT!" Yeah that was great advice. His azz will be in trouble as I sent my intake photos to the service manager then he called me with questions. I told him the exact wording, he's pissed, "action will be taken".
Granted Rover dealerships want 0-5 year old vehicles to make money off on repairs and service not older ones.
Prost.
If you want a good diagnosis from a technician, bring the vehicle in so he can get all the information in front of him, not just the information you are willing to give him.
So, you felt that the technician "owes" you free information? Why would you call a dealership and ask a flat rate tech to help you fix your truck? You are pulling him off a job to spend his time helping someone who isn't willing to bring the vehicle in for repair. Then you call his manager to try to stir things up?
If you want a good diagnosis from a technician, bring the vehicle in so he can get all the information in front of him, not just the information you are willing to give him.
If you want a good diagnosis from a technician, bring the vehicle in so he can get all the information in front of him, not just the information you are willing to give him.
"owes", nobody owes me anything, this must be in your own mind opinion.
Jason;
first off when a service manager that's also a personal friend that has in the past given me D1 "Parts Catalogues" (out dated) knowing I work on my own vehicle plus he's always wanting updates on how my D1 was running per conversations.
Told him hot restart problem has developed, he mentioned that he had no clue but wanted to know for himself. He's smarter than your average Rover service managers always wanting to gain more knowledge especially any problems he's stumped on. Tells me to hold on the line until his number one tech comes by the office. When a service manager insists on his number one tech to have a go at the question wanting to volunteer information not only for me plus the service manager for future use.
This question has stumped two service managers plus three "tech" service mechanics hence i'm better off solving this problem myself not counting way cheaper also. Just imagine the cost replacing pump, regulator and ECU sensors at dealership profit prices throwing parts at it until it's "fixed"?
There must be the difference between you and me as i'm welcomed at the the couple dealerships in the service and repair departments.
Heck engine exchanges over the years landed a couple short blocks offered vs being sent out as scrap metal, a 4.0 then a 4.6. Prime parts able to build up a spare 4.6 with "Top Hats" besides random "take offs" with alloy wheels at dirt low prices.
With two sets of Lucas (yuck) injectors from replacements given to me, I flushed and picked out a balanced with one set in a Service Managers off road only Rover. He's very pleased with my offerings to him. I must run in different circles than you.
We swap information a friendship to relationship thing plus upgrades that work, not your just drive in and pay which sounds like you have, so sad but funny at ther same time to me.
.....~~=o&o>.....
Last edited by BierNut; Feb 12, 2012 at 01:43 AM.
Hey, any updates on your stumble at hot start up?
Mine does the same thing at the exact same times, so naturally I'm interested in the solution!
I left a fuel pressure gauge on mine all weekend and it was always rock solid at 32 while running hot/cold and up to 37 turned off. The needle never twitched (from what I could tell, the entire Rover shakes during the stumbling though!) during hot start-ups.
I've got a fuel pump on the way, but I haven't checked & tested all the other possibilities like you have.
My former-Rover-tech friend swore that it was leaky injectors until we got the fuel pressure gauge on it and it sat steady at 37 for at least 30 mins after shut down.
Anyways, keep us posted, there are others interested in your findings.
P.S. In my opinion, the Land Rover community could use more "hot rodders".
Mine does the same thing at the exact same times, so naturally I'm interested in the solution!
I left a fuel pressure gauge on mine all weekend and it was always rock solid at 32 while running hot/cold and up to 37 turned off. The needle never twitched (from what I could tell, the entire Rover shakes during the stumbling though!) during hot start-ups.
I've got a fuel pump on the way, but I haven't checked & tested all the other possibilities like you have.
My former-Rover-tech friend swore that it was leaky injectors until we got the fuel pressure gauge on it and it sat steady at 37 for at least 30 mins after shut down.
Anyways, keep us posted, there are others interested in your findings.
P.S. In my opinion, the Land Rover community could use more "hot rodders".
I'm just flying out the door on an mission, i'll get back to ya later theis evening with what I have changed and found out. Sorry for the delayed postings been out of state a while and yes with the D1, I felt lucky on the highway.
Carl.....~~=o&o>......
Carl.....~~=o&o>......
Hey, any updates on your stumble at hot start up?
Mine does the same thing at the exact same times, so naturally I'm interested in the solution!
I left a fuel pressure gauge on mine all weekend and it was always rock solid at 32 while running hot/cold and up to 37 turned off. The needle never twitched (from what I could tell, the entire Rover shakes during the stumbling though!) during hot start-ups.
I've got a fuel pump on the way, but I haven't checked & tested all the other possibilities like you have.
My former-Rover-tech friend swore that it was leaky injectors until we got the fuel pressure gauge on it and it sat steady at 37 for at least 30 mins after shut down.
Anyways, keep us posted, there are others interested in your findings.
P.S. In my opinion, the Land Rover community could use more "hot rodders".
Mine does the same thing at the exact same times, so naturally I'm interested in the solution!
I left a fuel pressure gauge on mine all weekend and it was always rock solid at 32 while running hot/cold and up to 37 turned off. The needle never twitched (from what I could tell, the entire Rover shakes during the stumbling though!) during hot start-ups.
I've got a fuel pump on the way, but I haven't checked & tested all the other possibilities like you have.
My former-Rover-tech friend swore that it was leaky injectors until we got the fuel pressure gauge on it and it sat steady at 37 for at least 30 mins after shut down.
Anyways, keep us posted, there are others interested in your findings.
P.S. In my opinion, the Land Rover community could use more "hot rodders".
just because your holding rail pressure with the engine off does not mean all is well.
You could have low overall regulated rail pressure as well one, two, three or more injectors not flowing the same amount as the rest, unbalanced set.
Unbalanced set of injectors with confuse the O2 signals to the ECU, you can have one bank leaned down with one injector already at reduced output hence running leaner on that cylinder with the rest as normal talking F/A ratio.
Regulators another issue after reading replies of 20 psi numbers range all way below Rovers minimum spec's readings doesn't make it right either.
As they wear over time the pressure drops with regulators.
I exchanged a spare 4.0 intake manifold given to me for a NIB Rover fuel pump, only thing I gained was a new pump vs the 140K mile unit, pinched closed the return line had a pressure reading of 82 psi vs 78 of the 140K mile pump, big deal.
The ports were rather sick looking, undersized plus misaligned besides wavy not rectangular looking at all. They looked like a 5 year old with a crayon could of done better. One sure leaves a lot on HP & TQ on the table by not port matching these engines, efforts worth as much as a bigger cam alone.
Readings of 123 psi off a BMW pump but again they run the rails at 3 Bars vs 2.5 Bars as on Rovers.
Bad weather plus no time has delayed further checking into this project.
I'm holding at 3-5 seconds of 2-3 random cylinders stumbling but clears up quickly. With 2,000 miles driven this past month i've been too busy to do more checking.
I did pull a tandom axle U-Haul trailer of 2,100 pounds loaded with a free but unregistered for 25 years but runs a 70 F250 CS of 4,560 pounds. In the bed I picked up two spare 60's era 390 engines of 550 pounds each.
Towed at 7,760 pounds trailer over a truck scale plus a 300 pound toolbox in the Rover. I was limited at 53 mph as 60 it would fishtail on me.
Pulled Altamont pass plus the Dublin grade in 4th, rest of the trip 5th all the way.
The 4.6 pulled the same trailer I used before with lighter vehicles but would not pull these grades in 4th before the intake extensions and injector upgrades I added.
Keep ya posted, for those that care about the "highly modified and not stock vehicle that only I can work on" Yeah right.
BTW, RPI Tornado chips have been designed to prevent hard hot restart problems a design flaw that is in factory Rover UCU's, they are not stupid this chip designer for RPI. They went through many years of testing and designing for a chip with practical hp and TQ result numbers not just a peak HP number to impress.
Prost
Carl.....~~=o&o>.....


