anyone have info on the Magnuson Supercharger?
#11
11-16-2010, 07:06 AM
In doing some more searching it seems the bigger issue is not so much getting the supercharger to fit, but the issues your going to have with the engine management. So, if your getting a kit, I would hope it comes with the correct chip for the computer or your going to be looking at more than you paid for the blower used to get it to work.
another thing to keep in mind is you can not stop with just the SC. You really need to open the headers, and the rest of the exhaust system up. Porting and polishing the heads would not be a bad idea...
In my opinion the only way to do it correctly, shy of getting an actual kit made for your truck including all the engine management, is to just pull your engine, and get rid of the computers. On that really nice engine above, he is using a Ford EDIS (Electronic Distributorless Ignition System) Mechanical Parts
"My Ford Electronic Distributorless Ignition System came off of a 1996 Crown Victoria with a 4.6L V8.
EDIS is a type of capacitive discharge ignition which operates on the "wasted spark" principle (which briefly means that it fires two cylinders at once, but only one of the two sparks matters.) Base ignition timing is determined by a Hall Effect sensor situated to detect the passing "teeth" on a crank mounted trigger wheel."
Or some other solution like rebuilding the engine and going with a distributer.
All in all, is sounds like a LOT of money time and effort for a 50HP gain. The M90 runs out of boost at around 3k RPM. But is sure looks cool. I think it would be better money to just go ahead and build a stoker motor, or buy one of the great engines I see available for the rovers from the build shops. Sure your going to spend 5-6K but then you don't have all the headaches of figuring it all out yourself. Except when you actually put the engine in and start to tearing up your stock running gear...
I've been down this road.
I built an S-10 pickup with a 383 Stroker and a 671 Blower. It required a fully boxed and doubled frame, a ford 9 with Detroit lockers, custom greg mosher axles, a B$M racing 3 speed trans, a custom drive shaft, custom headers, custom engine mounts, and the list goes on and on and on... Took me years to get it correct as your would build up one part and break the next weakest link...
Having done this before, I would honestly just say screw it and spend the money on converting the truck to the Mercedes EM617 Diesel and end up with something thats going to last a lot longer and is a LOT cheaper to replace if it did grenade. (plus would be just as cool on the wow factor if not more so.)
another thing to keep in mind is you can not stop with just the SC. You really need to open the headers, and the rest of the exhaust system up. Porting and polishing the heads would not be a bad idea...
In my opinion the only way to do it correctly, shy of getting an actual kit made for your truck including all the engine management, is to just pull your engine, and get rid of the computers. On that really nice engine above, he is using a Ford EDIS (Electronic Distributorless Ignition System) Mechanical Parts
"My Ford Electronic Distributorless Ignition System came off of a 1996 Crown Victoria with a 4.6L V8.
EDIS is a type of capacitive discharge ignition which operates on the "wasted spark" principle (which briefly means that it fires two cylinders at once, but only one of the two sparks matters.) Base ignition timing is determined by a Hall Effect sensor situated to detect the passing "teeth" on a crank mounted trigger wheel."
Or some other solution like rebuilding the engine and going with a distributer.
All in all, is sounds like a LOT of money time and effort for a 50HP gain. The M90 runs out of boost at around 3k RPM. But is sure looks cool. I think it would be better money to just go ahead and build a stoker motor, or buy one of the great engines I see available for the rovers from the build shops. Sure your going to spend 5-6K but then you don't have all the headaches of figuring it all out yourself. Except when you actually put the engine in and start to tearing up your stock running gear...
I've been down this road.
I built an S-10 pickup with a 383 Stroker and a 671 Blower. It required a fully boxed and doubled frame, a ford 9 with Detroit lockers, custom greg mosher axles, a B$M racing 3 speed trans, a custom drive shaft, custom headers, custom engine mounts, and the list goes on and on and on... Took me years to get it correct as your would build up one part and break the next weakest link...
Having done this before, I would honestly just say screw it and spend the money on converting the truck to the Mercedes EM617 Diesel and end up with something thats going to last a lot longer and is a LOT cheaper to replace if it did grenade. (plus would be just as cool on the wow factor if not more so.)
Last edited by ngarover; 11-16-2010 at 07:18 AM.
#12
11-18-2010, 12:36 PM
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One version...
http://www.capa.com.au/kits_landrover.htm
Closer to the one your talking about...
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/460398...y-boston-ma-us
Looks a lot like the SC sitting on my 3.8 Buick engine in my yard... In fact, according to the Eaton application chart its the M90... which happens to be the exact same SC thats on my 3.8 (Out of an SSEi Pontiac)
http://www.thehighspeedlab.com/catalogsc004.html
http://www.capa.com.au/kits_landrover.htm
Closer to the one your talking about...
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/460398...y-boston-ma-us
Looks a lot like the SC sitting on my 3.8 Buick engine in my yard... In fact, according to the Eaton application chart its the M90... which happens to be the exact same SC thats on my 3.8 (Out of an SSEi Pontiac)
http://www.thehighspeedlab.com/catalogsc004.html
yes i have the Magnuson kit. But one thing that I am noticing that it different....I hva e a extra injector plummed in right after the throttle body. Which has its one map sensore with a vac line, so that when it see's boost it adds fuel. My disco already has toddco headers, and a complete and true 2.5" exhaust front to back with magnaflow hiflo cats and muffler. with the addition of the supercharger it should be nice. Im just at work right now, i will take pics of the set-up when I get to show you guys the managment.
#13
11-18-2010, 12:52 PM
Mudding
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#14
11-19-2010, 06:27 AM
yes i have the Magnuson kit. But one thing that I am noticing that it different....I hva e a extra injector plummed in right after the throttle body. Which has its one map sensore with a vac line, so that when it see's boost it adds fuel. My disco already has toddco headers, and a complete and true 2.5" exhaust front to back with magnaflow hiflo cats and muffler. with the addition of the supercharger it should be nice. Im just at work right now, i will take pics of the set-up when I get to show you guys the managment.
#15
11-19-2010, 10:38 PM
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#16
11-19-2010, 11:28 PM
Sweet.
Can I ask how much you gave for it? Being a super charger fan it will be interesting to see how it works for you. When are you planning to put it on?
Since this seems to be a factory or at least land rover original setup, do you think it will require any remapping of the computer to work correctly? IE maybe a programming with the testbook?
And btw, if you do want to dump it or decide not to put in on, I'll buy it from you and toss it onto my 96 for giggles.
Can I ask how much you gave for it? Being a super charger fan it will be interesting to see how it works for you. When are you planning to put it on?
Since this seems to be a factory or at least land rover original setup, do you think it will require any remapping of the computer to work correctly? IE maybe a programming with the testbook?
And btw, if you do want to dump it or decide not to put in on, I'll buy it from you and toss it onto my 96 for giggles.
#17
11-20-2010, 01:17 AM
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Sweet.
Can I ask how much you gave for it? Being a super charger fan it will be interesting to see how it works for you. When are you planning to put it on?
Since this seems to be a factory or at least land rover original setup, do you think it will require any remapping of the computer to work correctly? IE maybe a programming with the testbook?
And btw, if you do want to dump it or decide not to put in on, I'll buy it from you and toss it onto my 96 for giggles.
Can I ask how much you gave for it? Being a super charger fan it will be interesting to see how it works for you. When are you planning to put it on?
Since this seems to be a factory or at least land rover original setup, do you think it will require any remapping of the computer to work correctly? IE maybe a programming with the testbook?
And btw, if you do want to dump it or decide not to put in on, I'll buy it from you and toss it onto my 96 for giggles.
they made to be pretty simple. I'll have to assume that it will only run at 6-7 psi....they have already tuned the little ecu to provide the fuel nessessary...I really dont think anymapping will be needed, especially for only 6-7 psi. you could that on a factory tune with just a riser on most vehicles...
I am going to make one mod before i install it, im going to add water/meth injection for alittle bit of safety. i'll tap and install the meth injector right before the extra fuel injector. but beyond that this is definatly going to be installed on my disco. Eventually i will be puting a 4.6 in....but I will be installing this to the 4.0 while it runs.
I'm currently have my disco stored because I am working away from home, but I plan for the install in spring.
It looks really simple and straight forward i dont think there will be any issues with it. I prefer turbo's but i must say....it being simple...is making me like this setup
#18
11-20-2010, 07:29 AM
Well, at least you know what you have now. It's for sure the M90 Series I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD-DvN7HO8M
Did find more on it here...
https://landroverforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=11547
Everything I seem to find claims the same issues... The ECU trying to compensate and running the engine lean. It's the same issue we have when doing any upgrade, headers etc, the ECU basically tried to get the engine back to "normal" so we loose most the benefit.
Again I have to go back to what I was saying before, you could just bolt this kit on and get some power, but I still think It's going to require some sort of chipping or ECU programming to effectively use it. But, since you have it all and are thinking about trashing the engine anyways for a 4.6 it will be an interesting hands on test to see how it works.
No matter what you do to one of our engines to force more air in does not really change the flow rate of the current heads. Sure, tossing headers on will help a little... but you really need to port and polish your heads or find a better flowing set out there. (Think heads off a 64 Buick 215) Good heads are going to run 2k up. Of course we are also limited my are spark, as there are no upgrades to our coils etc...
What I really wish is that someone would just offer a complete kit for completely getting rid of the damn ECU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD-DvN7HO8M
Did find more on it here...
https://landroverforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=11547
01-27-2008, 03:48 PM
ajh
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 720
RE: Can I beef up a 4.0 for more speed?
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Disco Mike
No body has had much success with super chargers, tend to cause a lean burn and eat up pistons.
Borla's don't do much for their cost and you can't change out the coil packs, no high performance ones out there.
How many miles on your engine, what is your altitude and what octane gas are you using?
Well, the supercharger comment is sort of right. The one people were selling for it is the Eaton M90 but the boost plenum for an M90 is nowhere near large enough and is positioned over only the front 4 cyl. This was causing the front to get too much boost and the back to get not enough, so when the ECU compensated the rears went lean and caused the burn-out. People have supercharged rover engines properly, just like they've put DOHC heads on them, but none of the ones I've seen available lately have been suitable for just bolting onto a Land Rover V8.
All the upgrade options appear to be very expensive. Expect to spend $10-15K to get some real power. If you're happy with another 30hp, which would be about 17hp at the wheels (damned inefficient driveline) then you could go with performance heads alone for about $2K on top of your next head gasket change.
Unless you're an engine builder yourself, it'll be expensive. Though in the end just picking up a 4.6L short block and some performance heads would do a lot fairly cheaply, especially if you're able to do the work yourself. Or bore those out and put in 4.8L tophat liners.
__________________
2003 Discovery IIa - V8
1992 Defender 110 200TDI CSW, 2007 doors, 2007 roof, Richards Chassis, 1960s Series IIa dash shell, and numerous other hybrid parts along the way.
ajh
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 720
RE: Can I beef up a 4.0 for more speed?
Quote:
ORIGINAL: Disco Mike
No body has had much success with super chargers, tend to cause a lean burn and eat up pistons.
Borla's don't do much for their cost and you can't change out the coil packs, no high performance ones out there.
How many miles on your engine, what is your altitude and what octane gas are you using?
Well, the supercharger comment is sort of right. The one people were selling for it is the Eaton M90 but the boost plenum for an M90 is nowhere near large enough and is positioned over only the front 4 cyl. This was causing the front to get too much boost and the back to get not enough, so when the ECU compensated the rears went lean and caused the burn-out. People have supercharged rover engines properly, just like they've put DOHC heads on them, but none of the ones I've seen available lately have been suitable for just bolting onto a Land Rover V8.
All the upgrade options appear to be very expensive. Expect to spend $10-15K to get some real power. If you're happy with another 30hp, which would be about 17hp at the wheels (damned inefficient driveline) then you could go with performance heads alone for about $2K on top of your next head gasket change.
Unless you're an engine builder yourself, it'll be expensive. Though in the end just picking up a 4.6L short block and some performance heads would do a lot fairly cheaply, especially if you're able to do the work yourself. Or bore those out and put in 4.8L tophat liners.
__________________
2003 Discovery IIa - V8
1992 Defender 110 200TDI CSW, 2007 doors, 2007 roof, Richards Chassis, 1960s Series IIa dash shell, and numerous other hybrid parts along the way.
Again I have to go back to what I was saying before, you could just bolt this kit on and get some power, but I still think It's going to require some sort of chipping or ECU programming to effectively use it. But, since you have it all and are thinking about trashing the engine anyways for a 4.6 it will be an interesting hands on test to see how it works.
No matter what you do to one of our engines to force more air in does not really change the flow rate of the current heads. Sure, tossing headers on will help a little... but you really need to port and polish your heads or find a better flowing set out there. (Think heads off a 64 Buick 215) Good heads are going to run 2k up. Of course we are also limited my are spark, as there are no upgrades to our coils etc...
What I really wish is that someone would just offer a complete kit for completely getting rid of the damn ECU.
#19
11-20-2010, 10:15 AM
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I do have my concerns about going lean, but it think the little boost it will run should be ok. Like i said im going to running water/meth injection...that should give me more detonation supression and more octane.....im hoping that will close the gap and keep it from detonating.
if it does...at least it will happen to my 4.0....at that piont I will move towards geting Megasquirt standalone....
if it does...at least it will happen to my 4.0....at that piont I will move towards geting Megasquirt standalone....
