Sure sounds like the voltage to the coil/out of the coil is awfully weak. Black electrodes on the spark plugs means too much fuel/weak spark and a weak spark will not ignite a cylinder with too much fuel, it drowns the spark because there isn't enough atomization, like a wet blanket of fuel over the spark. A good looking plug is light orange/smokey grey porcelain with nothing on the electrodes. Porcelain should still have shine to it, signifies heat range is good. What spark plugs are you using?

 

[QUOTE What spark plugs are you using?[/QUOTE]

New NGK, standard heat range

After two weeks of trying and no or weak sparking they will no doubt look like they do, I think.

 

Just got this adamant advice from a Landrover expert in the big cold country north of here: 'I have a vehicle exactly like yours (1995 C1 V8i) with exactly the same problems, and bridging the spider solved the starting problem. Nice photo's too and step by step instructions, too.

Now on this very forum there was opposing opinions whether my vehicle in fact has the "spider" or not (in fact it simply is a square little black box protecting a PC board with very poorly executed soldering on it).

Stand by for the news: There is no "spider" in the 1995 Discovery I V8i Landrover - not in this one I try and drive.

Scouts, when you have time please tell me what is the function of the throttle position sensor? How does it work and exactly what does it do? Until I understand I can not see how that component would affect the ignition. The Canadian expert who is adamant about the spider is also adamant that the only other fault now would be the TPS. I need to understand the interactive actions of the TPS and the ignition circuits.

 

It's simply a sensor input for the ECM to control the injector pulse length. I believe your silent expert believes the TPS is causing the motor to flood. Commonly what happens with the TPS is when they become worn they wear flat spots on their contact segments (usually at idle or just off idle). This sends a weak signal or no signal to the ECM so the motor hesitates (no throttle position input).

As far as the spider it's moot anyways. The alarm is still the same response with or without it when it's in a fault state. All the alarm will do in your case is break an electrical connection to the starter relay. Not the problem with your truck.

What CCA is your battery?

 

[QUOTE
1. This sends a weak signal or no signal to the ECM so the motor hesitates (no throttle position input).

2. All the alarm will do in your case is break an electrical connection to the starter relay. Not the problem with your truck.

3. What CCA is your battery?[/QUOTE]


Thank you, Scouts,

1. That was my understanding - it would have NO effect on starting, mostly on idling and possibly on acellerating. Not my problem.

2. I like to learn and confirm that the immobilizer cuts the FUEL and not the ignition.

3. Battery is 700 Ah when warm and a little less when cold. I have two batteries, both in very good condition. They spin the starter and the starter spin the engine very good in fact. I never get more than 12.6 volt reading on them - except when the engine is running, then the alternator output is 14.5 volt.

4. I tried a tug start today but no deal.

5. The fact that there is no pattern bugs me: I get a weak spark when I lay a spark plug on the engine and crank it. When I hold the coil lead to the engine there is no spark.

6. Even when I connect the battery positive directly to the coil positive there is no spark at the coil-distributor terminal against the engine. Brand new coil, done 100 miles, together with the brand new ignition amplifier module.

7. Maybe the brand new Lucas OEM amplifier unit did give up the ghost within one week...

 

Well.....it is a Lucas.....poof.

As far as the spark, remember a coil has to build up a charge (it's a capacitor) even though the rotor is spinning the time between posts is enough to store another 20kv charge to jump an *air gap*. So you'd get one good spark and then your basically grounding the coil to the block. It's not going to give you a constant spark like a 12v to 20kv step up transformer........ When your testing a spark plug against the block it's another story, the rotor is off the post of the plug your holding to the block and the coil is building it's charge.

The only pattern your having is "no start".

Spark is a separate issue from fuel.

Here's my suggestion; get another new set of spark plugs, set the air gap to .028 and preferably a set of Champion RN11YCC but the NGK's in the 5 range are the same heat transfer rating. Grab a can of Ether (starting fluid). Send some starting fluid down the plenum after the new plugs are in. Get it started and get it up to temp quickly to burn off all the extra fuel/ether and carbon build-up which there's a ton of already sitting on top of your pistons. (Little lesson, clean the tops of the pistons with a little water injection steam cleaning (water in a soda bottle) through the brake booster vacuum line, works and is much cheaper than Seafoam). These motors love to build up carbon, it's a problem they didn't address well and when they get old and tired they are a PITA to get motivated because they build up the carbon at a higher rate due to worn rings and general top end slop. If you can get it running run some Techron through your injectors by pouring it in the fuel tank, don't care if tank's full or not just run it through them. You'll probably have to change your plugs again or at least re-gap them to .033 once you know you can get the motor to turn over. This is if your positively sure you've got the dizzy set as you'll have to now time the motor per the Rave for vacuum advance (lack of) and mechanical weights.

Give it a go and let's see where it take us.

 

Now this is what I call proper, good advice, thank you Scouts - I'll talk to you if I get her started up in this way.

May the week be good to you whatever it is you do.

A.

 

Scouts - your advice please before I do the ether start:

I have in my 50 years of owning vehicles never ever had occasion to need such stuff. What is the risk of severe pre-ignition and stretched cylinder head bolts?

 

Nil......

 

Thanks - now, how much water can be sucked into the plenum via the brake booster suction tube? I am thinking about hydraulicing and bent push rods or worse.