Venting, and thinking outloud.
#11
10-26-2010, 06:14 PM
Recovery Vehicle
#12
10-26-2010, 07:01 PM
Baja
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburgh PA suburbs.
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Where is your Power Steering leak? My 97 has almost 120K on it now, no power steering leaks at all. I did have to replace one of the tranny cooler lines due to a pinhole leak spraying when it was running. It got the front driver's wheel well dripping, which I though was a PS leak until I crawled under it with my Maglight and found the pinhole. The spray was the diameter of a hair.
I don't see why the insistence on having just one car. I always prefered two or three whenever I could. Unless you need a Discovery's ability to get to the job site, it's kind of a waste, but some people are in Love with the Green Oval and think any Land Rover is a fine automobile. When they are actually just a British farm truck dressed up a little. British, not Euro, farm truck, not a sexy Ferrari, lots of fun off the road, amazing at playing on trails, getting to remote locations, some were made to repair out in the wilds (Series mostly), but not any of the new ones.
Land Rovers are good for certain things, they will go some amazing places, but they are some magic machine that will get you everywhere you want to go evert time you want to go there.
If you can live with that, fine, enjoy it. If not, sell it to the next sucker.............
I don't see why the insistence on having just one car. I always prefered two or three whenever I could. Unless you need a Discovery's ability to get to the job site, it's kind of a waste, but some people are in Love with the Green Oval and think any Land Rover is a fine automobile. When they are actually just a British farm truck dressed up a little. British, not Euro, farm truck, not a sexy Ferrari, lots of fun off the road, amazing at playing on trails, getting to remote locations, some were made to repair out in the wilds (Series mostly), but not any of the new ones.
Land Rovers are good for certain things, they will go some amazing places, but they are some magic machine that will get you everywhere you want to go evert time you want to go there.
If you can live with that, fine, enjoy it. If not, sell it to the next sucker.............
#14
10-26-2010, 08:11 PM
Bought my one owner 152,change always dealer maintained at a POS wrong side of town used car lot in April '07.
Paid $4500 cash tax, title and plates included.
It now has 197,change.
I would drive it to the North Pole tomorrow.
You either need to...
A-tough it out and you will have a new truck eventually
B-get new friends
C-sell it
Paid $4500 cash tax, title and plates included.
It now has 197,change.
I would drive it to the North Pole tomorrow.
You either need to...
A-tough it out and you will have a new truck eventually
B-get new friends
C-sell it
#15
10-26-2010, 09:20 PM
I bought mine from a backyard mechanic (who was french and hated british cars) for 1000$ in September 2008. The hood wasn't opening and I had to put in a t-case and a ECU. And I'm still paying for the lack of maintenance from the previous owner, but I'm slowly getting over it.
I wouldn't hesitate to drive it anywhere.... GO BEYOND as they say. Everytime I off-road it puts a smile on my face because my truck is one of a kind in my off-road group.
Leaks don't bother me anymore... I know it's leaking, I simply carry the fluids I might need on the way. And I'll never pay to have asphalt in my driveway because it will be ruined within 3 years.
I don't think Rovers are less reliable than any other car or truck. With proper maintenance you can get them everywhere.
I wouldn't hesitate to drive it anywhere.... GO BEYOND as they say. Everytime I off-road it puts a smile on my face because my truck is one of a kind in my off-road group.
Leaks don't bother me anymore... I know it's leaking, I simply carry the fluids I might need on the way. And I'll never pay to have asphalt in my driveway because it will be ruined within 3 years.
I don't think Rovers are less reliable than any other car or truck. With proper maintenance you can get them everywhere.
#16
10-26-2010, 09:30 PM
Hmmm... Mine has been very reliable once I went through and fixed all the deferred maintenance items. I've taken mine cross country twice with the family and it was a real blast. Never had problems, or trust issues. A lot of the trust issue is a byproduct of how one handles the repairs and maintenance items. I think that can be changed if you do it right. If you love your Discovery like you say, my recommendation is to consider the following:
1) Divide your list in half, then take care of each group in two bites. Try to set aside a whole weekend you can resolve each group of repairs. Go through and see if you can find other things that will go wrong ...like worn hoses, etc. Take care of the general maintenance items that will need attention soon anyway, like brakes, hoses, tranny fluid, etc. By approaching it this way you will soon get ahead of the items that make it seem like are nickling and diming you to death and you won't seem to be fixing it all the time. Soon it become more reliable on a daily basis. Then you will develop trust with it. I made a big long list and just started going down the list. And BTW, don't buy things like used alternators, you're just settng yourself up for a future failure. But, take yours apart and inspect the brushes. You can buy a new brush kit for like $20 at an alternator shop if your used alternator brushes are worn down to a nub. Heck, you might want to take your starter to an alternator shop and have them rebuild it for you before it dies (any day now). If you don't have the mechanical skills or tools to do the needed repairs and no $$ for someone else to fix it, you may as well move onto #2 below. If you do, then you are off to a good start (move onto #3). Kind of like Zen and the Art of Land Rover Maintenance.
2) Get something different if you don't feel you want to go the distance on repairs and mileage. You can't do anything about the fuel economy past 14-15 mpg. It's a heavy vehicle and not as well optimized as some other better engineered vehicles. But bear in mind that an Explorer V8 is only going to get a couple MPG better at best. So are you really going to save much in fuel moving to another vehicle? Now, have you considered a Mitsubishi Montero Limited? You can buy them cheap and they have the advantage of being Japanese engineered. I'd say they are a better and slightly more robust vehicle in many (most?) ways. Get the 1997 style that has the altimeter and grade/tilt gagues. They look a lot like Discos too, very safari-like. I saw an Isuzu Trooper the other day that had bigger tires and a lift and a new paint job and it looked BOSS! OR, (and you don't want to hear this), how about a Jeep Grand Cherokee? Our 1995 G/C we have owned for about 10 years has been the most reliable and cheapest vehicle I think I've ever owned. It has 240,000 miles, doesn't burn a drop of oil and always turns in 19.5 - 20.5 MPG between tankfulls (city/hwy mix).
And with Select-trac xfer case is extremely good in the mud/show. I've taken it through some very deep snow. I mean it is VERY good when I lock the xfer case. I'd like to think my Disco is better off-road than my Jeep, but honestly, I can't say that it is based on my experience and I've had my Disco on Colorado trails and Utah slickrock. It was fine but I mean, it's stock, so yeah, if I modified it I'm sure it would be that much better on the trials, but it still steers like crap compared to the Jeep. The 4.0 Jeep straight six is legendary for durability and, suprisingly has significantly better acceleration and power to weight than my D1. On the road the Jeep just handles better, stops better, is more comfortable to drive, ergonomics are better, has a MUCH tighter turning radius and quicker ratio steering. In short, it's just better engineered IMO. And for buying parts, they made billions of Jeeps (well, not literally) and aftermarket parts are no sweat. Aftermarket off-road parts are cheaper than L/R parts. My wife drives it daily and she loves it, trusts it and feels safe in it. BUT, ultimately, it's no "Land Rover".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Jeep is the grandaddy of all vehicles, it's not. Its not overbuilt in any way. I'm just saying that my experience, (and I know others that own Jeeps that say the same thing) it's a very reliable vehicle that is cheap to own. For daily driving and periodic trail use it is great for that. I think you could say the same of an Explorer and a Blazer too. You might also consider a Yukon as an alternative. I've got a Chevy truck that has over 245,000 on it that has been almost as trouble-free as the Jeep and the Yukon is basically a truck with a back end. The point is, you have options.
3) Use the L/R as a special-events vehicle. How I offset my L/R experience is I drive a VW Jetta TDI daily that gets 40-43 mpg each tankful. For $34 I can go some $550 miles on a tankful and that's a liberating feeling. Plus they are VERY reliable and long lasting. It's got 10 airbags for safety and handles great. I just get in and drive. It gives me more time to catch up on repairs on the L/R. So, I drive the L/R on a fair weather basis and I find I really enjoy the Disco that much more w/o any guilt about fuel economy and needed repairs. I almost croak when I put 60+ dollars of gas in the L/R tank. As a 3rd vehicle I can stomach it, but no way would I ever drive it daily with that kind of economy for the miles I drive.
So there are some thoughts... Good luck,
1) Divide your list in half, then take care of each group in two bites. Try to set aside a whole weekend you can resolve each group of repairs. Go through and see if you can find other things that will go wrong ...like worn hoses, etc. Take care of the general maintenance items that will need attention soon anyway, like brakes, hoses, tranny fluid, etc. By approaching it this way you will soon get ahead of the items that make it seem like are nickling and diming you to death and you won't seem to be fixing it all the time. Soon it become more reliable on a daily basis. Then you will develop trust with it. I made a big long list and just started going down the list. And BTW, don't buy things like used alternators, you're just settng yourself up for a future failure. But, take yours apart and inspect the brushes. You can buy a new brush kit for like $20 at an alternator shop if your used alternator brushes are worn down to a nub. Heck, you might want to take your starter to an alternator shop and have them rebuild it for you before it dies (any day now). If you don't have the mechanical skills or tools to do the needed repairs and no $$ for someone else to fix it, you may as well move onto #2 below. If you do, then you are off to a good start (move onto #3). Kind of like Zen and the Art of Land Rover Maintenance.
2) Get something different if you don't feel you want to go the distance on repairs and mileage. You can't do anything about the fuel economy past 14-15 mpg. It's a heavy vehicle and not as well optimized as some other better engineered vehicles. But bear in mind that an Explorer V8 is only going to get a couple MPG better at best. So are you really going to save much in fuel moving to another vehicle? Now, have you considered a Mitsubishi Montero Limited? You can buy them cheap and they have the advantage of being Japanese engineered. I'd say they are a better and slightly more robust vehicle in many (most?) ways. Get the 1997 style that has the altimeter and grade/tilt gagues. They look a lot like Discos too, very safari-like. I saw an Isuzu Trooper the other day that had bigger tires and a lift and a new paint job and it looked BOSS! OR, (and you don't want to hear this), how about a Jeep Grand Cherokee? Our 1995 G/C we have owned for about 10 years has been the most reliable and cheapest vehicle I think I've ever owned. It has 240,000 miles, doesn't burn a drop of oil and always turns in 19.5 - 20.5 MPG between tankfulls (city/hwy mix).
And with Select-trac xfer case is extremely good in the mud/show. I've taken it through some very deep snow. I mean it is VERY good when I lock the xfer case. I'd like to think my Disco is better off-road than my Jeep, but honestly, I can't say that it is based on my experience and I've had my Disco on Colorado trails and Utah slickrock. It was fine but I mean, it's stock, so yeah, if I modified it I'm sure it would be that much better on the trials, but it still steers like crap compared to the Jeep. The 4.0 Jeep straight six is legendary for durability and, suprisingly has significantly better acceleration and power to weight than my D1. On the road the Jeep just handles better, stops better, is more comfortable to drive, ergonomics are better, has a MUCH tighter turning radius and quicker ratio steering. In short, it's just better engineered IMO. And for buying parts, they made billions of Jeeps (well, not literally) and aftermarket parts are no sweat. Aftermarket off-road parts are cheaper than L/R parts. My wife drives it daily and she loves it, trusts it and feels safe in it. BUT, ultimately, it's no "Land Rover".
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Jeep is the grandaddy of all vehicles, it's not. Its not overbuilt in any way. I'm just saying that my experience, (and I know others that own Jeeps that say the same thing) it's a very reliable vehicle that is cheap to own. For daily driving and periodic trail use it is great for that. I think you could say the same of an Explorer and a Blazer too. You might also consider a Yukon as an alternative. I've got a Chevy truck that has over 245,000 on it that has been almost as trouble-free as the Jeep and the Yukon is basically a truck with a back end. The point is, you have options.
3) Use the L/R as a special-events vehicle. How I offset my L/R experience is I drive a VW Jetta TDI daily that gets 40-43 mpg each tankful. For $34 I can go some $550 miles on a tankful and that's a liberating feeling. Plus they are VERY reliable and long lasting. It's got 10 airbags for safety and handles great. I just get in and drive. It gives me more time to catch up on repairs on the L/R. So, I drive the L/R on a fair weather basis and I find I really enjoy the Disco that much more w/o any guilt about fuel economy and needed repairs. I almost croak when I put 60+ dollars of gas in the L/R tank. As a 3rd vehicle I can stomach it, but no way would I ever drive it daily with that kind of economy for the miles I drive.
So there are some thoughts... Good luck,
Last edited by Mark G; 10-26-2010 at 10:05 PM.
#17
10-26-2010, 10:34 PM
Baja
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Mark, very well put. The VW's of today are excellent daily drivers. I like the ad they do that shows the guy working several obs, but in the end he has 2 Jetta's, one that says MINE and the other one says MINE TOO. Can't get much better for great milage.
I always enjoyed having more than one vehicle. I liked having the option of which one to drive that particular day.
I was once told the reason British cars are more problematic than US or German cars for instance is evident if you compare the size of England and driving habits of the British people to the US or Germany. England is mostly small villages pretty close together with short duration drives being most common. No Interstate highways stretching 2500 miles across the country, no high speed limits, No Autobahn.
I don't know of any British makes that have a good reputation for dependability.
Morris Garage (MG), British Leyland (wasn't LR primarily developed originally by BL)
Jaguar (lots of racing heritage, but not known for longevity or dependable engines or electrical).
Gotta appreciate them for their off-road capability, and when you do work your thru it (if you do) then at least you learn more about them and what to carry with you. With proper maintenace, they will last longer and do better as you pointed out. But they are not some magical wonderful never leave you stranded vehicle like we wish they were.
I always enjoyed having more than one vehicle. I liked having the option of which one to drive that particular day.
I was once told the reason British cars are more problematic than US or German cars for instance is evident if you compare the size of England and driving habits of the British people to the US or Germany. England is mostly small villages pretty close together with short duration drives being most common. No Interstate highways stretching 2500 miles across the country, no high speed limits, No Autobahn.
I don't know of any British makes that have a good reputation for dependability.
Morris Garage (MG), British Leyland (wasn't LR primarily developed originally by BL)
Jaguar (lots of racing heritage, but not known for longevity or dependable engines or electrical).
Gotta appreciate them for their off-road capability, and when you do work your thru it (if you do) then at least you learn more about them and what to carry with you. With proper maintenace, they will last longer and do better as you pointed out. But they are not some magical wonderful never leave you stranded vehicle like we wish they were.
#18
10-27-2010, 02:17 PM
Reliability(it's great)
I keep reading how unreliable the Land Rovers are. My wife and I just made a trip from Alberta Canada to Las Vegas and Death Valley Calif. The trip was over 3000 miles and not a bit of trouble. Before we left I had the front brakes pads replaced and the U joints checked. This has to be done on any vehicle, maybe we just got an exceptional D1 but it is great and we don't spend anymore on it than we do our Chev. S10. Our Land Rover is a 98 Discovery in show room condition. I take it 4x4ing in the desert as there are no tree's there to scratch it.
#19
10-27-2010, 05:46 PM
#20
10-27-2010, 05:47 PM