I really want to do something about how weak the brakes are. In the last two or three years I've replaced the booster/servo, the master cylinder, installed stainless flex lines, new EBC rotors all around, and EBC green pads, and of course, flushed the fluid, but it's still so weak. I recently replaced the worn out front pads with EBC orange (more friction than green), and new front rotors.

My wet weight with everything including driver is 5400 pounds, and I roll on oversize tires, 33's. I was checking some things out on a field of compacted snow/ice and was astonished that if I stood on the pedal, the brakes wouldn't lock the rear wheels up. The front lock up with firm pressure on the pedal.

I lifted the rear axle to check the rear brakes were working. They did work. I bled them just in case. I repeated the test on the snow and found I could lock them up with extreme pedal pressure.

I understand the proportioning valve is set for heavy front bias to keep the rear end from coming 'round. I also have higher friction pads on the front than on the rear. I could put yellow pads on the rear, but I'm considering other upgrades instead.

I have ABS disabled, so I tried to see if I could lock up the tires on the pavement. The asphalt was dark with dampness, but had no standing water. I drove up to 30mph and stood on the pedal. I couldn't even chirp the tires.

For years I figured this was just normal. I think I've done everything to make the brakes I have work as best as possible. Is this normal?

 

It is set for front bias, because that is where the weight in the truck is, and therefore stopping power. A front bias makes the truck MORE likely to come around, however. More rear brakes = less chance to spin. It is a trade off, less stability for more total braking effort.

You can upgrade to the calipers and rotors used on the D90 (same vehicle, essentially, with a different body). Anecdotal forum evidence (I have not done the upgrade, so I can't comment with any certainty) seems to indicate that the improvement is marginal. That one is expensive, and these two things will preclude me from performing the upgrade.

 

D90 upgrade. Bigger pistons and bigger pads.
Won't do a darn thing for the rear though. The rear sucks, period. Red Winch sells adapters to run front calipers in the rear. Or you can buy an adjustable proportioning valve. Or both.

 

Rear brake bias can spin the car. That's why the hand brake does the trick on most cars (early Land Rovers excluded due to the parking brake on the driveshaft).

Front brakes deliver the most brake force because the weight is transferred forward during braking. Regardless of the static weight distribution, due to inertial weight transfer, the rear is unweighted during braking and therefore the tires have little traction to afford much brake force. If the rear tires lock due to high force on the rotors but little tire traction, they will slide and travel farther than the front tires which are slowing due to more traction from weight, resulting in spinning the car. Again, this is why we can spin most cars with the hand brake which typically clamps the rear rotors.

Thanks for the advice on the upgrades. I am aware of the D90 and D110 calipers, and the Red Winch adapters because of advice in earlier threads in this forum. I priced out D90 calipers (All Makes), vented rotors, pads and the adapters at $478.96 with tax and shipping. For D110 calipers ("Pro Line") which would use my existing rotors (which only have about 1000 miles on them), new larger pads, and the adapters to move my 41mm 4-pot calipers to the rear totaled $479.18.

I imagine the 4 piston calipers on the rear wheels won't contribute a lot simply because those tires have little traction under braking. However, I am interested in them for offroad use. I do wonder if fitting them will require me to re-proportion. The valve would cost me maybe $50, but the plumbing parts will probably cost me $200 more.

So, yeah, I could upgrade, but is it really worth it? Should I spend another $500 or $600 on the brakes to stop how much better? Maybe I should just keep driving it with the knowledge that I can't stop fast, and save the money for something else.

 

$200 on plumbing parts?? My $700 '95 D1 came with a Summitt adjustable proportioning valve and I can tell you there might have been $20 worth of plumbing to make it work.

 

Umm....well, uh...hmm. There is just very little in those two paragraphs that is correct. I'm just gonna leave it at that.

 

What about RRC brakes? I know the Defender 110 used the larger piston calipers that fit 1/2" width rotors, and the Defender 90 uses the same larger 46mm piston calipers but have spacers in them to fit wider vented rotors. But what was the best option on Classics, maybe the '95? I'm pretty sure whatever they had would bolt right up. Did they have the 41mm pistons, 46mm, or ?

As far as upgrades go, I've come across some very low prices for the D90 calipers, as in $64 per caliper for Allmakes pattern parts. I'm not sure pattern parts are good though. I've heard Britpart brakes for example are notoriously bad. I've had some crap All-makes parts before, but others that were fine. On the other hand, I've always had good results with remans like Cardone and others. I'd definitely trust reman Lockheed AP calipers, or the reman Lucas servo and master I have. I'm going to look into the RRC option to see if there's more choices there, because looking for Defender parts in the US might not be the best bet. If anyone knows if there's a RRC option for upgrades, I appreciate you letting me know.

 

I too feel your pain with weak brakes. I went with the D90 uprgrade, my experience was it helped more with brake fade than total stopping power, but still I felt it was worth the upgrade. Also hate to say this but I had the full EBC upgrade for awhile before the D90 upgrade and was NOT impressed. My rear EBC pads lasted no more than 3000 miles an squeaked for the last 2000. I have genuine pads up front and Mintex in the rear now.

 

The EBC green 6000 were unimpressive. I have the EBC yellow in front now, and they're quite good by comparison. I'm pretty sure upgrading the rear to yellow would improve things but it will cost about $80. I don't want to waste the money if I decide to pull the trigger on the full upgrade.

I also had the EBC GD Sport (slotted and dimpled rotors), still do in the rear. They're ok, but I don't think very highly of them. I'm satisfied with the Napa UP rotors. They're only $10 less expensive though. I don't think much of slotting/dimpling for this application. The venting on the D90 rotors is more meaningful. I don't think, however, that buying the cheapest rotors is a safe bet.