Aux / condenser electric fan, always running?
#1
05-21-2010, 03:18 PM
Aux / condenser electric fan, always running?
Hi guys - let me first start out by saying that I just replaced my old rusted/seized up condenser fan (I couldn't even move the blades enough to get to all 3 screws on the motor/shroud, had to drill them!) I used that cross-reference list of the Denso fans with all those little Japanese cars and got the thing from advance autoparts for $56! Perfect fit, came with a set of 3 new screws/nuts to mount to the shroud, and a new fan blade nut (which fits into the key perfectly.)
Anyways, after discovering that the blue and black wires on the fan do NOT go to the blue and black wires on the OEM plug (I'm guessing because that fan motor is usually a radiator/puller fan on most cars, not an aux/pusher fan like on ours..) so it spun the wrong way haha.. but I checked so I was prepared for it!
So all seems good, except I notice that whenever I get somewhere and park I can hear the fan running - even last night when it was ~55 degrees out.
RAVE says without AC on, it should turn on at 212 and off at 202.
Let me rule out some common first-guesses..
If the fan DOESN'T turn on for a long time (aka while the vehicle is warming up) after it's been sitting, even with the AC switched on - my temperature sending unit HAS to be functioning correctly since it knows not to turn the fan on yet. Eventually the AC will activate the fan when the vehicle is up to temp.
The fact that the fan turns on means the relay/fuses/circuitry is correct and intact.
Temp gauge on car is in the middle and everything feels fine. Doesn't fluctuate in traffic or on highway.
....am I the only one that thinks this is weird? There's NO WAY that after driving in 55 degree temps on the highway without AC on the coolant is over 212 degrees (tstat opens at 179, max open at 204.. at highway speeds this should be perfectly adequate with zero fans!)
Anyways, after discovering that the blue and black wires on the fan do NOT go to the blue and black wires on the OEM plug (I'm guessing because that fan motor is usually a radiator/puller fan on most cars, not an aux/pusher fan like on ours..) so it spun the wrong way haha.. but I checked so I was prepared for it!
So all seems good, except I notice that whenever I get somewhere and park I can hear the fan running - even last night when it was ~55 degrees out.
RAVE says without AC on, it should turn on at 212 and off at 202.
Let me rule out some common first-guesses..
If the fan DOESN'T turn on for a long time (aka while the vehicle is warming up) after it's been sitting, even with the AC switched on - my temperature sending unit HAS to be functioning correctly since it knows not to turn the fan on yet. Eventually the AC will activate the fan when the vehicle is up to temp.
The fact that the fan turns on means the relay/fuses/circuitry is correct and intact.
Temp gauge on car is in the middle and everything feels fine. Doesn't fluctuate in traffic or on highway.
....am I the only one that thinks this is weird? There's NO WAY that after driving in 55 degree temps on the highway without AC on the coolant is over 212 degrees (tstat opens at 179, max open at 204.. at highway speeds this should be perfectly adequate with zero fans!)
#2
06-04-2010, 08:24 AM
1st Gear
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Condenser Fans
I came across this thread while looking for clues as to why the condenser fans on my '97 Disco aren't running.
Thanks to Wade on landroversonly.com for this information which I came across earlier and which may be helpful to you:
For the Discovery II, the ECU inputs which control the condenser fans are as follows:
On When vehicle speed is 50 mph (80 km/h) or less and ambient
temperature is 28 °C (82 °F) or more
Off When vehicle speed increases to (62.5 mph (100 km/h) or
ambient temperature decreases to 25 °C (77 °F)
For engine cooling during normal running:
On 100 °C (212 °F)
Off 94.5 °C (202 °F)
For engine cooling at ignition off (to counteract heat
soak):
On If, within 10 seconds of ignition off, intake air temperature is 60 °C
(140 °F) or more and engine coolant temperature is 110 °C (230
°F) or more
Off After 10 minutes or if engine coolant temperature decreases to
100 °C (212 °F)
Thanks to Wade on landroversonly.com for this information which I came across earlier and which may be helpful to you:
For the Discovery II, the ECU inputs which control the condenser fans are as follows:
On When vehicle speed is 50 mph (80 km/h) or less and ambient
temperature is 28 °C (82 °F) or more
Off When vehicle speed increases to (62.5 mph (100 km/h) or
ambient temperature decreases to 25 °C (77 °F)
For engine cooling during normal running:
On 100 °C (212 °F)
Off 94.5 °C (202 °F)
For engine cooling at ignition off (to counteract heat
soak):
On If, within 10 seconds of ignition off, intake air temperature is 60 °C
(140 °F) or more and engine coolant temperature is 110 °C (230
°F) or more
Off After 10 minutes or if engine coolant temperature decreases to
100 °C (212 °F)
#3
06-04-2010, 10:01 AM
#4
06-05-2010, 10:02 PM
DiscoArt, did you read any of this thread before rambling meaningless drama? 
As I stated before, I've had a scan tool hooked up to the car and have read the temperatures at idle and at slightly above idle - this problem only happens when the engine is IDLING and the temperature does NOT continue to increase, however it stays slightly higher then the ON trigger temp of the aux/condenser fan (212).
Just about ANYTHING past idle RPM will cool sufficiently to turn off the fan (below 202) very quickly, so this isn't an issue while driving.. or even coasting in traffic in 1st gear.
I'm just curious from an mechanical point of view; what would change to cause insufficient cooling at idle RPM? I can't figure out the variables here; one would assume that a water pump should either work or fail, but nothing between. Tstat is unlikely because RPM fixes the problem and the two shouldn't be connected. The flow of coolant is the only variable which changes with RPM, which would mean water pump or blocked radiator? The later is unlikely because of how quickly the temps drop when RPMs increase. I'm really about 75% set on this being water pump-related, but I'm still trying to figure out how!
As I stated before, I've had a scan tool hooked up to the car and have read the temperatures at idle and at slightly above idle - this problem only happens when the engine is IDLING and the temperature does NOT continue to increase, however it stays slightly higher then the ON trigger temp of the aux/condenser fan (212).
Just about ANYTHING past idle RPM will cool sufficiently to turn off the fan (below 202) very quickly, so this isn't an issue while driving.. or even coasting in traffic in 1st gear.
I'm just curious from an mechanical point of view; what would change to cause insufficient cooling at idle RPM? I can't figure out the variables here; one would assume that a water pump should either work or fail, but nothing between. Tstat is unlikely because RPM fixes the problem and the two shouldn't be connected. The flow of coolant is the only variable which changes with RPM, which would mean water pump or blocked radiator? The later is unlikely because of how quickly the temps drop when RPMs increase. I'm really about 75% set on this being water pump-related, but I'm still trying to figure out how!
#5
06-05-2010, 10:14 PM
The impeller can slip on the water pump shaft, so lets say the water pump is at 600 rpm at idle but the impeller is only at say 300 rpm.
Increase engine speed to 2000 rpm and water pump is now at 1500 rpm, make sense?
It does not happen often but the impeller slipping can happen, it is just pressed onto the shaft.
Increase engine speed to 2000 rpm and water pump is now at 1500 rpm, make sense?
It does not happen often but the impeller slipping can happen, it is just pressed onto the shaft.
#7
06-06-2010, 01:05 AM
#8
06-06-2010, 09:57 AM
Oh I forgot to post the fan, sorry!
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product__19010032-P_564_R|GRPCOOLAMS____
I found some 20% discount code thing off my whole order which took another $15 off it, bringing it to $57 - but it's still dirt cheap for a brand new fan motor. Like I said though, it comes with the same blue and black wires as the Disco, but you MUST reverse these (blue to black, black to blue) since it's designed as a puller radiator motor not a pusher condenser motor.
DiscoArt - the system is stupidly confusing as per the rave manual drawing of coolant flow, but it specifically says that in "wide open" mode at 202 degrees, the "full flow of coolant is directed through the radiator".
It says the bypass flow valve forces coolant through the heater matrix ONLY, when the engine is at idle, to improve heater performance for cold engines, but this is only the case when the main valve is CLOSED.
So it's possible some combination of things is busted in my tstat I suppose, which is preventing flow or allowing it to bypass at idle (I already have a spare tstat) but.. eh.
I've never heard of a pressed fitting slipping on a water pump impeller, but I guess there's a first for everything? If this was the case however, you'd think it would slip more at high RPM and be fine at idle.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product__19010032-P_564_R|GRPCOOLAMS____
I found some 20% discount code thing off my whole order which took another $15 off it, bringing it to $57 - but it's still dirt cheap for a brand new fan motor. Like I said though, it comes with the same blue and black wires as the Disco, but you MUST reverse these (blue to black, black to blue) since it's designed as a puller radiator motor not a pusher condenser motor.
DiscoArt - the system is stupidly confusing as per the rave manual drawing of coolant flow, but it specifically says that in "wide open" mode at 202 degrees, the "full flow of coolant is directed through the radiator".
It says the bypass flow valve forces coolant through the heater matrix ONLY, when the engine is at idle, to improve heater performance for cold engines, but this is only the case when the main valve is CLOSED.
So it's possible some combination of things is busted in my tstat I suppose, which is preventing flow or allowing it to bypass at idle (I already have a spare tstat) but.. eh.
I've never heard of a pressed fitting slipping on a water pump impeller, but I guess there's a first for everything? If this was the case however, you'd think it would slip more at high RPM and be fine at idle.
Last edited by EstorilM; 06-06-2010 at 10:00 AM.
#10
06-06-2010, 05:31 PM
Oh I forgot to post the fan, sorry!
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product__19010032-P_564_R|GRPCOOLAMS____
I found some 20% discount code thing off my whole order which took another $15 off it, bringing it to $57 - but it's still dirt cheap for a brand new fan motor. Like I said though, it comes with the same blue and black wires as the Disco, but you MUST reverse these (blue to black, black to blue) since it's designed as a puller radiator motor not a pusher condenser motor.
DiscoArt - the system is stupidly confusing as per the rave manual drawing of coolant flow, but it specifically says that in "wide open" mode at 202 degrees, the "full flow of coolant is directed through the radiator".
It says the bypass flow valve forces coolant through the heater matrix ONLY, when the engine is at idle, to improve heater performance for cold engines, but this is only the case when the main valve is CLOSED.
So it's possible some combination of things is busted in my tstat I suppose, which is preventing flow or allowing it to bypass at idle (I already have a spare tstat) but.. eh.
I've never heard of a pressed fitting slipping on a water pump impeller, but I guess there's a first for everything? If this was the case however, you'd think it would slip more at high RPM and be fine at idle.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product__19010032-P_564_R|GRPCOOLAMS____
I found some 20% discount code thing off my whole order which took another $15 off it, bringing it to $57 - but it's still dirt cheap for a brand new fan motor. Like I said though, it comes with the same blue and black wires as the Disco, but you MUST reverse these (blue to black, black to blue) since it's designed as a puller radiator motor not a pusher condenser motor.
DiscoArt - the system is stupidly confusing as per the rave manual drawing of coolant flow, but it specifically says that in "wide open" mode at 202 degrees, the "full flow of coolant is directed through the radiator".
It says the bypass flow valve forces coolant through the heater matrix ONLY, when the engine is at idle, to improve heater performance for cold engines, but this is only the case when the main valve is CLOSED.
So it's possible some combination of things is busted in my tstat I suppose, which is preventing flow or allowing it to bypass at idle (I already have a spare tstat) but.. eh.
I've never heard of a pressed fitting slipping on a water pump impeller, but I guess there's a first for everything? If this was the case however, you'd think it would slip more at high RPM and be fine at idle.