B2 S1 O2 sensor oddity
#21
I wish my doctor was as detailed at reading symptoms as you are...makes perfect sense, I appreciate that.
Okay, I've printed all this out and getting ready to head out and start digging through it.
Just for reference, when this problem first occurred I did have a fairly consistent miss and an occasional "hard" miss. I changed out the plug wires and put in iridium plugs (all the plugs, both sides, were shot which surprised me) After that, it would throw the codes and only miss when climbing the road into my house. On level ground she'll run 70 without a hiccup (not real spunky, but gets there). I also changed my gas cap after getting a half dozen evap errors which cleared that up.
Yesterday, even though I had 2 new sensors I decided to torture myself and swap S1 LH to RH The LH sensor has 60K on it and had heat marks but otherwise clean, the RH which had been in only 2 days looked like a charcoal briquette. Today as I tear in to it, I have known good O2's up and downstream on both sides.
(I have a pdf dump of about 50 frames of data fro yesterday if it's needed)
Thanks, I'll post as soon as I get it checked out.
Okay, I've printed all this out and getting ready to head out and start digging through it.
Just for reference, when this problem first occurred I did have a fairly consistent miss and an occasional "hard" miss. I changed out the plug wires and put in iridium plugs (all the plugs, both sides, were shot which surprised me) After that, it would throw the codes and only miss when climbing the road into my house. On level ground she'll run 70 without a hiccup (not real spunky, but gets there). I also changed my gas cap after getting a half dozen evap errors which cleared that up.
Yesterday, even though I had 2 new sensors I decided to torture myself and swap S1 LH to RH The LH sensor has 60K on it and had heat marks but otherwise clean, the RH which had been in only 2 days looked like a charcoal briquette. Today as I tear in to it, I have known good O2's up and downstream on both sides.
(I have a pdf dump of about 50 frames of data fro yesterday if it's needed)
Thanks, I'll post as soon as I get it checked out.
#22
Ok, good test on swapping left and right. That tells us the 02 is good, and whatever the problem is seems to be located either on bank 2 of the engine or in the bank 2 circuitry. Your fuel trims indicate the ECU is throwing all the fuel it can at bank 2, but it still cannot raise the voltage. It appears as your engine warms up it gets progressively leaner on that side. Note with the same amount of fuel a warm engine should actually be richer than a cold one, so yours is actually working in reverse. I doubt it is just one cylinder, that likely would not have this big of an impact without a miss. It would be strange indeed to have partially plugged injectors on one side only, however we may consider swapping left to right injectors just to rule out an injector issue - lets come back to that. The power steering booster and PCV valve vacuum ports are directly over the bank 2 intake manifold junction at the main front intake plenum tube, although it would not be directly isolated to that bank, if those were leaking air they might have an outsized influence on that bank. You could pull both off and plug them just to do a test and see if it changes. It is possible your power brake booster has a hole in it causing a vacuum leak without you knowing it. Other potential leaks on that side include the intake gaskets and injector o-rings, although if you did not change anything recently those are unlikely to have this size effect. I pretty sure you can rule out bad coils/wires/plugs - those would cause a rich condition not a lean one.
I would recommend plugging those vacuum lines and see what happens. If that does not solve the issue I would probably swap injectors left to right just rule that out, then I would consider an ECU swap (I have the benefit of 4 running trucks and three spare ECU's). You could buy a used ECU/BCU/Cluster combo off of ebay to test with and just resell it for what you paid for it if you don't need it - basically free test parts.
Let us know what you find out.
I would recommend plugging those vacuum lines and see what happens. If that does not solve the issue I would probably swap injectors left to right just rule that out, then I would consider an ECU swap (I have the benefit of 4 running trucks and three spare ECU's). You could buy a used ECU/BCU/Cluster combo off of ebay to test with and just resell it for what you paid for it if you don't need it - basically free test parts.
Let us know what you find out.
Ok, I disconnected and plugged the PCV line and Booster line, engine kept running, no change in operation or data.
Pulled the PCV and it was clogged solid, so I stripped everything, got rid of the separator and put in the FRAM PCV mod.
Ran a new booster line (though that fitting is a bit sloppy on the plenum, it has that hinky plasti-lock gizmo)
Ran about a half hour, didn't throw a code. Acceleration is improved but that's about the only difference I can tell "by feel".
The new Trim data appears likes it's not going to the wall to keep up,,,just sitting at zero.
Bank 2, Upstream sensor still winds down to zero, but much faster, less than 2 minutes.
* I did do a battery disconnect after the mods, before capturing new data.
NEW Data
LT Trim bank 1 - 2.3
LT Trim bank 2 - 14.8
short term bank/sensor 1/1 -4.7
short term bank/sensor 2/1 0.0
short term trim bank 1 -2.3
short term trim bank 2 0.0
B1S1 .450
B1S2 .755
B2S1. 0.00
B2S2 .655
OLD Data
LT Trim bank 1 - 2.3
LT Trim bank 2 - 14.8
short term bank/sensor 1/1 -3.1
short term bank/sensor 2/1 25.0
short term trim bank 1 -0.8
short term trim bank 2 25.0
B1S1 .125 (next frame over this goes to .460 then to 180, so it's not static)
B1S2 .445
B2S1..025 (this sensor starts out oscillating...then starts declining)
B2S2 .450
Last edited by GarySpringfield; 10-18-2019 at 03:33 PM. Reason: added note
#23
Ok, maybe I missed it earlier when you said you had a miss. Based on the miss and the wicked lean condition, now I am guessing you have a plugged/dead injector on bank two. You can remove the injectors, crank the engine, watch them squirt. make sure all squirt. Or swap left and right. Also, I just noticed you have three of these. You might want swap EC/BCUU's with one of the other ones. If you don't move the truck it won't mess up the clusters. If you need to drive to test you should move the cluster two otherwise the ODO will flash.
#24
Ok, maybe I missed it earlier when you said you had a miss. Based on the miss and the wicked lean condition, now I am guessing you have a plugged/dead injector on bank two. You can remove the injectors, crank the engine, watch them squirt. make sure all squirt. Or swap left and right. Also, I just noticed you have three of these. You might want swap EC/BCUU's with one of the other ones. If you don't move the truck it won't mess up the clusters. If you need to drive to test you should move the cluster two otherwise the ODO will flash.
I'll yank the injectors first thing in the morning and report back. Thank you for all the help!
(My boys took the other D2's to the lake, but I'll have them back Monday if I end up needing to swap out the ECU packages)
#25
I was probably unlear on the miss, it will occur once the code is thrown, but not before. Since I replaced the sensor, it hasn't thrown a code even though the S1 voltage drops to zero...so it's not currently missing.
I'll yank the injectors first thing in the morning and report back. Thank you for all the help!
(My boys took the other D2's to the lake, but I'll have them back Monday if I end up needing to swap out the ECU packages)
I'll yank the injectors first thing in the morning and report back. Thank you for all the help!
(My boys took the other D2's to the lake, but I'll have them back Monday if I end up needing to swap out the ECU packages)
OK, checked all the injectors and gave them a good cleaning, put it all back together and took her for a spin. S1 now operating just like it's supposed to but I'm throwing a misfire code on the #4 cylinder (Bank 2 Sensor 1 side). So I'm going to dig back in to it, swap out the plug wires and plug, and see if that doesn't get it up to snuff.
Last edited by GarySpringfield; 10-19-2019 at 08:24 PM. Reason: edited to correct location to "Bank 2 Sensor 1"
#26
#28
I'm still at it...I took the IM off again and decided to go ahead and order new injectors and another IM gasket. I should have them tomorrow and will get it put back together and see if I've managed to fix the problem.
#29
HI guys, my apology for the delay (I have oniy one working kidney and it decided to lay down for a week)
So here's what I found, thi one may be considered solved.
1. Contributing problem: The rear Upper Intake Bolt (short one) was loose and leaking air.
2. Contributing problem: The Upper Intake Gasket was actually fractured in 4 places.
3. Primary Problem: #4 connection to the Ignition Coil had a hairline fracture that was arcing
4. #4 Plug Wire was arcing at the rear curve of the intake clip. Barely visible.
Solution:
1.Replaced all the Upper Intake Air bolts, used red loctite.
2. Replaced both ignition coils
3. Replaced plug wires.
4. Just for good measure, I replaced my vac hoses, lines, clips and clamps. Cleaned and reinstalled the SAI tubes, new plugs, replaced loom covers and ties. Gave her a good degrease and oil change.
Idle is now smooth as silk, 90 minute run out on the highway with no problems. Gas mileage has increased 40%. No codes, no miss. Runs better now than when new and she looks pretty as a picture sitting next to her garage mates and the wife's new Evoque.
Thank you all, kindly, for the insight and assistance. She runs like a top now.
So here's what I found, thi one may be considered solved.
1. Contributing problem: The rear Upper Intake Bolt (short one) was loose and leaking air.
2. Contributing problem: The Upper Intake Gasket was actually fractured in 4 places.
3. Primary Problem: #4 connection to the Ignition Coil had a hairline fracture that was arcing
4. #4 Plug Wire was arcing at the rear curve of the intake clip. Barely visible.
Solution:
1.Replaced all the Upper Intake Air bolts, used red loctite.
2. Replaced both ignition coils
3. Replaced plug wires.
4. Just for good measure, I replaced my vac hoses, lines, clips and clamps. Cleaned and reinstalled the SAI tubes, new plugs, replaced loom covers and ties. Gave her a good degrease and oil change.
Idle is now smooth as silk, 90 minute run out on the highway with no problems. Gas mileage has increased 40%. No codes, no miss. Runs better now than when new and she looks pretty as a picture sitting next to her garage mates and the wife's new Evoque.
Thank you all, kindly, for the insight and assistance. She runs like a top now.
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Richard Gallant (11-10-2019)
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