A Bit of Guidance Needed with Purchase
#1
11-01-2009, 07:03 PM
A Bit of Guidance Needed with Purchase
Gentlemen/Ladies,
I've been perusing this forum for a few weeks now, in anticipation of buying my first Land Rover. It will be my daily driver, and the newest addition to my "toy store"/"giant drain on my bank account".
I own a boat and two other vehicles, (both car/truck are diesel) and am working with a guy in my area (ATL GA) to convert DII's & DI's to the TDI drivetrain. I've got a lot more experience working on diesel motors than gas, but hey, air, fuel, and ignition is pretty universal.
I am trying right now to find a DII for a transplant patient. We have a great source for the TD5 drivetrain, and a great shop local to me that will do the installs when the checkbook permits. For now, I do have some questions for the group, specifically the mechanically inclined among you.
I am looking at 3 used DII's right now. They are all gasoline, and have mileage from 68K-141K. What I am trying to figure out, is what should I worry about in the long run when I know the drivetrain will be replaced in a year or so?
The diesel swap is the engine, transmission, and transfer case. I will probably put a 5-speed in, just because I like them better, and miss a stick shift. So a few interior parts, pedals, center console, etc will be replaced.
So here is the beef:
What components give out under high mileage? With proper fluid changes, differentials last a Looooooong time, but what else will crap out on me? axle seals, bearings, hubs, driveshaft seals? I don't see many really high mileage rovers out here, I would guess due to the fact that a gas engine is usually (before everyone jumps me about it) a wheezing dinosaur at 200K, whereas a properly maintained diesel is just breaking in at that same mileage point.
Also, I need to buy this truck NOW, and will probably wait for 6-12 months to do the swap, so I also don't want to do a bunch of scut work to it, namely the head gasket. If that thing blows, its TD5 time.
I've read the posts about the 60K service, and will do that as soon as I aquire a truck. Also the front drive shaft. The electrical posts bother me a bit more, I just don't have as much experience with Ohm-meters as I do wrenches. The "3 amigos" problem seems widespread, and I haven't found a post to really nail it down. I passed on a beautiful 2000 DII today, because it has all 3 lights on, the "service engine soon" light on, and the turn signals were completely out. No indication on the dash or the rear/front lights. I could get this truck for a steal, the interior is in GREAT shape, and the body is 90-95%, but how difficult are all these "electrical demons"? A good friend of mine is a BMW gearhead, racing/fixing the things, and he cries all the time about all the electrical issues, and how much time they eat up.
I am also up in the air in terms of mileage. Used DII's here go for anywhere from $1500-13000 depending on mileage. The higher mileage ones seem to be relative bargains, but I am trying to get at least another 20-40K miles from this thing before I completely blow the engine to hell.
So should I shell out for a newer one, knowing that I have to drop a good bit on the TD5 soon, or will a high-mileage vehicle keep going.
Any inputs on the part of the crew here would be helpful.
Thoughts? DII's for sale? Am I nuts to buy a 2000 DII with electrical problems and 136K miles? Bueller?
- DC
I've been perusing this forum for a few weeks now, in anticipation of buying my first Land Rover. It will be my daily driver, and the newest addition to my "toy store"/"giant drain on my bank account".
I own a boat and two other vehicles, (both car/truck are diesel) and am working with a guy in my area (ATL GA) to convert DII's & DI's to the TDI drivetrain. I've got a lot more experience working on diesel motors than gas, but hey, air, fuel, and ignition is pretty universal.
I am trying right now to find a DII for a transplant patient. We have a great source for the TD5 drivetrain, and a great shop local to me that will do the installs when the checkbook permits. For now, I do have some questions for the group, specifically the mechanically inclined among you.
I am looking at 3 used DII's right now. They are all gasoline, and have mileage from 68K-141K. What I am trying to figure out, is what should I worry about in the long run when I know the drivetrain will be replaced in a year or so?
The diesel swap is the engine, transmission, and transfer case. I will probably put a 5-speed in, just because I like them better, and miss a stick shift. So a few interior parts, pedals, center console, etc will be replaced.
So here is the beef:
What components give out under high mileage? With proper fluid changes, differentials last a Looooooong time, but what else will crap out on me? axle seals, bearings, hubs, driveshaft seals? I don't see many really high mileage rovers out here, I would guess due to the fact that a gas engine is usually (before everyone jumps me about it) a wheezing dinosaur at 200K, whereas a properly maintained diesel is just breaking in at that same mileage point.
Also, I need to buy this truck NOW, and will probably wait for 6-12 months to do the swap, so I also don't want to do a bunch of scut work to it, namely the head gasket. If that thing blows, its TD5 time.
I've read the posts about the 60K service, and will do that as soon as I aquire a truck. Also the front drive shaft. The electrical posts bother me a bit more, I just don't have as much experience with Ohm-meters as I do wrenches. The "3 amigos" problem seems widespread, and I haven't found a post to really nail it down. I passed on a beautiful 2000 DII today, because it has all 3 lights on, the "service engine soon" light on, and the turn signals were completely out. No indication on the dash or the rear/front lights. I could get this truck for a steal, the interior is in GREAT shape, and the body is 90-95%, but how difficult are all these "electrical demons"? A good friend of mine is a BMW gearhead, racing/fixing the things, and he cries all the time about all the electrical issues, and how much time they eat up.
I am also up in the air in terms of mileage. Used DII's here go for anywhere from $1500-13000 depending on mileage. The higher mileage ones seem to be relative bargains, but I am trying to get at least another 20-40K miles from this thing before I completely blow the engine to hell.
So should I shell out for a newer one, knowing that I have to drop a good bit on the TD5 soon, or will a high-mileage vehicle keep going.
Any inputs on the part of the crew here would be helpful.
Thoughts? DII's for sale? Am I nuts to buy a 2000 DII with electrical problems and 136K miles? Bueller?
- DC
#2
11-01-2009, 08:17 PM
The more miles the better, that means that somebody else fixed everything.
If it has over 100k then you can be 98% sure that the head gaskets have already been done.
And I have to disagree with you...my work van has 237k on her and she still runs like a top.
And thats with dino oil changes every 5,000 miles.
BUT, when I drove truck I put 500k on a Cummins ICX, the engine was great but fuel delivery was horrible, broken fuel lines every 30k as well as fuel getting into the crank case.
You knew when that happened because she would smoke to beat hell and oil would start to leak out of every nook and cranny.
Made one hell of a mess.
If it has over 100k then you can be 98% sure that the head gaskets have already been done.
And I have to disagree with you...my work van has 237k on her and she still runs like a top.
And thats with dino oil changes every 5,000 miles.
BUT, when I drove truck I put 500k on a Cummins ICX, the engine was great but fuel delivery was horrible, broken fuel lines every 30k as well as fuel getting into the crank case.
You knew when that happened because she would smoke to beat hell and oil would start to leak out of every nook and cranny.
Made one hell of a mess.
#3
11-02-2009, 12:46 AM
Not much high mileage Rovers cause they always in the garage getting something fixed 
Kidding apart, A diesel D2 would be a great vehicle to have. I would think that the driveshafts , especially the front one would be the one thing to watch after changing the fluids and going to Synthetics in everything else.
Kidding apart, A diesel D2 would be a great vehicle to have. I would think that the driveshafts , especially the front one would be the one thing to watch after changing the fluids and going to Synthetics in everything else.
#4
11-02-2009, 06:41 AM
Thanks for the input guys. And yeah, after a few years of experience, and converting 2 diesels to run veggie oil with success, (including my beast of a delivery truck), I really can say that I prefer a diesel to a gasoline engine. (granted I live in the south, and it seldom gets below freezing)
The thing that most concerns me is the electrical problems. Do the 3 amigo pop up on ALL DII's? are there 3-4 common causes? So far in searching, I've found shuttle valves and ABS modulator as possible causes, both sound like lengthly/costly fixes, and very possibly over my head electrically.
I was taught by an older mechanic who always said the mark of a good mechanic was knowing when to ask for help......I've never been let down by it.
When the transplant occurs, I will want to try and get 150K-250K more out of the vehicle (I keep cars a looooong time - just my thing) and want to make sure I'm not going to regret cheaping out on the original buy with lower mileage.
Are the bodies/axles etc on these things going to run 300-400K miles? I know the TD5 drivetrain will do 250K minimum, even when not maintained. If you doubt that, head to Africa or central america and look around. Not pretty trucks, but they start every time, and NO maintenance is performed until something breaks....
Anyway, I'm still looking for 3 amigos cures, any more updates and information on that would be great. I've downloaded the service manual, (my buddy here has the hard copy) and am reading through that a bit each day.
Pictures of any shuttle valve/ABS repairs would be greatly appreciated, or the links to them.
And Spike, yes, diesels are prone to VERY large messmaking. But I'm guessing they're like rovers. Once you know them, you just can't go back....
- DC
The thing that most concerns me is the electrical problems. Do the 3 amigo pop up on ALL DII's? are there 3-4 common causes? So far in searching, I've found shuttle valves and ABS modulator as possible causes, both sound like lengthly/costly fixes, and very possibly over my head electrically.
I was taught by an older mechanic who always said the mark of a good mechanic was knowing when to ask for help......I've never been let down by it.
When the transplant occurs, I will want to try and get 150K-250K more out of the vehicle (I keep cars a looooong time - just my thing) and want to make sure I'm not going to regret cheaping out on the original buy with lower mileage.
Are the bodies/axles etc on these things going to run 300-400K miles? I know the TD5 drivetrain will do 250K minimum, even when not maintained. If you doubt that, head to Africa or central america and look around. Not pretty trucks, but they start every time, and NO maintenance is performed until something breaks....
Anyway, I'm still looking for 3 amigos cures, any more updates and information on that would be great. I've downloaded the service manual, (my buddy here has the hard copy) and am reading through that a bit each day.
Pictures of any shuttle valve/ABS repairs would be greatly appreciated, or the links to them.
And Spike, yes, diesels are prone to VERY large messmaking. But I'm guessing they're like rovers. Once you know them, you just can't go back....
- DC
#5
11-02-2009, 08:12 AM
LOL, yes, I LOVE diesels.
I got mine back Sat.
The 3 amigo's can be caused from anything from a loose/bad wheel speed sensor to the SLABS unit, so anywhere from free to $2500.
Yes, it happens to ALL DII's at some point in their life.
The body panels on a DII are aluminum EXCEPT the roof, doors and window frames, those are steel and those are where it will rust, window frames especially.
But the frames are just bolted in and can be easily replaced.
The DII has tones of electrical gremlins, that is one of the many reasons I own a DI (plus a DI is all aluminum)
The running gear from the gas and diesels are the exact same, same t-case, trans, diffs, axles...same same.
The version that you see in South Africa is the same version you see here, only different owners manual, they soften it up for the NAS market.
They tell us that the towing capacity is 5500lbs, while the rest of the world is 7700lbs.
Same truck, same engine, same axles...wimpy sue happy American's who cant take responsibility for their own stupidity.
If electronics worry you then get a DI and put your diesel in that.
I got mine back Sat.
The 3 amigo's can be caused from anything from a loose/bad wheel speed sensor to the SLABS unit, so anywhere from free to $2500.
Yes, it happens to ALL DII's at some point in their life.
The body panels on a DII are aluminum EXCEPT the roof, doors and window frames, those are steel and those are where it will rust, window frames especially.
But the frames are just bolted in and can be easily replaced.
The DII has tones of electrical gremlins, that is one of the many reasons I own a DI (plus a DI is all aluminum)
The running gear from the gas and diesels are the exact same, same t-case, trans, diffs, axles...same same.
The version that you see in South Africa is the same version you see here, only different owners manual, they soften it up for the NAS market.
They tell us that the towing capacity is 5500lbs, while the rest of the world is 7700lbs.
Same truck, same engine, same axles...wimpy sue happy American's who cant take responsibility for their own stupidity.
If electronics worry you then get a DI and put your diesel in that.
#6
11-02-2009, 12:59 PM
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#9
11-02-2009, 05:33 PM
Guys,
I purchased a DII today, got it for a SONG. It needs a crankshaft sensor to pass emissions, which should be easy enough. The 3 amigos will take some messing with, but if it comes down to it, I'll pull the ABS out of there - I never need them anyway. If I lived somewhere with snow I might keep them, but it snows about once a decade in the ATL.
I'm going to get the fluids/filters for the 60K flush/service of all the parts tomorrow, and I'll keep people updated as the project progresses.
I went with a DII for the upgraded interior, and the fact I want a newer TD5 driveline, rather than the older 300tdi in the DI. Its got more power, and I'm willing to deal with some gremlins for that, as well as the fact that the DII I think looks a lot better than the DI.
Southern trucks don't really rust, this one is no exception. If I ever go nuts and move somewhere with ice/salt on the roads, I'm buying a jalopy subaru for the winter and that's that.
Other than the 60K flush/service and the driveshaft (and the 3 amigos.....) anything I need to watch out for? She's getting a full workover this weekend so I get familiar with what's what, (need a refresher on gas engines.......oh boy...) but as always, keep'em coming and If I get the time, I'm going to do a full "3 Amigos - Solved!!" writeup, or maybe "sanity - LOST!", depending on the outcome.
- DC
I purchased a DII today, got it for a SONG. It needs a crankshaft sensor to pass emissions, which should be easy enough. The 3 amigos will take some messing with, but if it comes down to it, I'll pull the ABS out of there - I never need them anyway. If I lived somewhere with snow I might keep them, but it snows about once a decade in the ATL.
I'm going to get the fluids/filters for the 60K flush/service of all the parts tomorrow, and I'll keep people updated as the project progresses.
I went with a DII for the upgraded interior, and the fact I want a newer TD5 driveline, rather than the older 300tdi in the DI. Its got more power, and I'm willing to deal with some gremlins for that, as well as the fact that the DII I think looks a lot better than the DI.
Southern trucks don't really rust, this one is no exception. If I ever go nuts and move somewhere with ice/salt on the roads, I'm buying a jalopy subaru for the winter and that's that.
Other than the 60K flush/service and the driveshaft (and the 3 amigos.....) anything I need to watch out for? She's getting a full workover this weekend so I get familiar with what's what, (need a refresher on gas engines.......oh boy...) but as always, keep'em coming and If I get the time, I'm going to do a full "3 Amigos - Solved!!" writeup, or maybe "sanity - LOST!", depending on the outcome.
- DC