For the past couple of years, my 2004 HSE has exhibited an annoying but been-living-with-it quirk.

Occasionally, when starting the vehicle, one or both of the sunroofs would open. Sometimes just one, other times both, sometimes just the tilt up, other times fully opening. It would usually (but not always) require powering down the vehicle and then powering back up again before the sunroofs would respond and close.

Anyhow, I started 'er up this morning, and both sunroofs opened all the way.

When I went to close them, the front closed fully, but the rear made a whirring noise and didn't move.

I climbed up the ladder and found that the I could slide the rear sunroof all the way forward to the closed position, though it doesn't pop down, ie, it stays in the tilted position.

What'ya think is wrong: the cables or gear on the frame or the motor spindle?

Is there a way to temporarily close it with a crank somewhere?

I've had the headliner out before to renew it, so while it is a PITA, I am not intimidated about doing it to get to the sunroof mechanism.

And I've got a couple of donors at the local recycler that probably still have the rear sunroof, so I think I can get a frame and motor if needed.

Any advice on further diagnosis to figure out exactly what happened before I dive into fixing it?

 

A little more information.

After studying the operation of the working front sunroof and how the cable drive system tilts and moves the glass, and then comparing to the rear, it appears that one of the two hinge pivot points on one of the "glass carriers" (drivers side, see pic from RAV) might be broken, allowing the "wheel" driven by the cable to escape the constraints of the two pivot points. As a result, the rear sunroof drive rumbles as it runs between its open and close stop positions.

To figure it out further what is going on, e.g., where the cable wheel is, I'll need someone to operate the switch while I observe it in the back.

It says in the RAV that the glass carrier can be removed from the cable assembly, so now a couple of questions:

1. can I remove the glass from the glass carriers without having to remove the entire cable tray assembly.

2. If I can remove the glass in situ, can I then remove the glass carrier from the cable so I can repair the broken hinge point or perhaps replace the glass carrier entirely (if I can get one from a donor), then run the cables back into a position where I can get the cables/wheels re-set on the glass carrier.

Advice from anyone who has worked on the sunroof as to whether I can fix this in-place or whether I need remove the cable tray assembly would be most appreciated (front or rear, RAV seems to imply that they operate the same))

 

I have had to replace two of the glass carrier assemblies. One broken backing in to garage door, don't remember how I broke the other one. You cannot replace in place, sunroof pan needs to be dropped. If you can get it open you can remove the glass from the carrier to verify it is a broken carrier. I have a couple spares so if you need pics I can post them. You can put a allen wrench in the center of the sunroof gear and turn it manually, but if the gear is loose from the axle it won't do anything. Long socket works best.

 

Thanks, Extinct.

If you could post those pics, it would be great to help me understand the whole setup.

Motor runs so if the motor-to-cable assembly gears aren't stripped, then either the cable is off the carrier or the cable itself is screwed.

With the glass still popped up and all the way forward (after being able to slide it forward manually, I now can't seem to move it back), I think there is just enough room in there that I can reach the front screws holding the glass to the carrier.

Do you think removing the glass would be a good idea to get a better/clear look at the mechanism situation and whther it is the carrier that is the problem?

If I have to go in and remove the tray, do you think I have to remove the headliner entirely or just drop it in the back? When I last screwed with the headliner to install my roof rail extensions, I recall only dropping the back half to get enough room to get a drill in there, but while I do have gorilla arms -- 36" seam -- I am not confident I could reach all the way to the front of the sunroof tray.

 

To determine if the gear has stripped from the shaft on the gearmotor you can just swap a new one in to test. Have you never pulled the entire headliner? If not I would recommend doing so and doing the full pan sealing. You can also do radiant barrier and coat the headliner top surface with stainblocker paint. Also drive around for a couple weeks with no headline in the rain to found any more leaks. I have found leaking body seams, leaking roof rails, etc.

 

Extinct is 100% right.

I will tell you, I'm pretty technically inclined and i tore apart the entire roof, both sunroofs down to the metal. I had a total of my 2 sunroofs and 2 used sunroofs and was finally able to make 2 100% fully functional sunroofs. It sucked. Take your time. I used Sikaflex-291 LOT it found it easy to work with. I used a steel wheel to kind of lightly grind off the old adhesive from the roof and underside of the top sunroof. I didn't feel like doing it again! I also used a heat gun to remove the drain tubs and then again to reinstall them.

I also found a few creaks - the body adhesive was starting to seperate from the roof skin to roof supports and was rubbing. I just shot a bunch of the Sika up there and it quieted it down.

Siles 80mil on the roof skin too was cheap, easy, and great results. It's no S550 now but way quieter and cuts down on the heat a ton.

I bet I had 20 hours into the whole job over the course of a week or so.

 

Extinct, I have had the headliner out once to renew it. PITA job but very straightforward.

Though I have had no visible leak issues, I would leave the liner out for a week -- if there was rain on the horizon for Texas.

I think what happened is one of my glass carriers broke, and as a result the little wheel in the cable assembly got under the carrier, so guessing that the synchronizing of the cable system is all screwed up.

As I also have the intermittent "ghost" opening my sunroofs, having the liner out would also give me an opportunity to swap out the sunroof control unit and see if that fixes the problem, as well as to inspect the roof for seam leaks and other water issues.

So guessing the liner is coming out.

 

I've fixed these sunroofs more times than I can count... In my experience, it's never the gears stripping at the motor. it's almost ALWAYS the little pegs on either track on either side, made of pot metal, first bend then eventually snap off (from lack of lubrication, gunk in the sunroof tracks, etc). If you look up at either side of your D2 sunroof, you will see these pegs. It's what makes it tilt up when you first press the button, and then what makes it slide back. When these pegs start to bend in any direction other than 90 degrees, they start to bind etc.

That said the motors actually do die themselves.

And then of course is the other problem, water leaks in 3 spots
1) between plastic frame and metal roof
2) broken drain tube nipples on either side of sunroof at front (and mis routed or clogged drain lines)
3) the rubber seal on the glass

 

Thanks, nashvegas.

By "pegs", do you mean what look like little "wheels" or "mushrooms" (when viewed from the side) that engage the glass carrier and first lift the glass and then move it back?

If so, then it appears that the wheel/peg on the drivers side of the rear sunroof is either gone -- or the pivot on the glass carrier failed (I can lift up that side of the glass a bit, indicating that one of the carrier pivot is broken), allowing the peg to slide under the carrier.

Even if that is the case, any idea why I can't push the glass down?

I am screwing up the courage to go out to the junkyard really early (they open at 7am) and try to beat the heat.

A couple of questions about removing the cable assembly frame from the roof that is not obvious from the RAV instructions:

1. do I need to remove the rubber sunroof seal on the outside of the roof (the RAV doesn't say anything about this)? it seems like it would be in the way of pulling the cable assembly frame out from the top.
2. once I drop the sunroof "tray", is the cable assembly frame glued or otherwise sealed to the roof, i.e., do I need to cut the sealant or carefully pry it off? again, the RAV seems to imply the tray just drops down and the frame just pulls up and out. However, brivalen talks about using sealant, so worried that the tray doesn't just drop out and the assembly frame doesn't just pull up.

Again, thanks again in advance for any/all responses.

 

Couple thoughts:

#1 -- Nope, seal says in the sunroof plastic frame on the roof top, no need to remove. If you unbolt the motor and drop it (it being the motor) down, you should be able to close the sunroof pretty easily. The gears on the motor are still engaged on the "drivetrain" which is why it won't move.
#2 -- From factory there is no adhesive holding the sunroof pan UP to the roof from underneath once you remove the bolts. It just drops down. Also -- From factory there is only 3m adhesive tape (like emblem tape) holding the plastic frame on TOP of the roof to the metal car roof. It's really a bad sealing methodology ! You'll find that the frame just lifts up as that tape has deteriorated. So basically, yep it'll just pull off unless someone has fixed it before (in which case I sikaflex the plastic frame to the roof of the car from the top side)