Could it still be the altenator?
#1
08-09-2011, 03:34 PM
Could it still be the altenator?
So here is my problem...
I have a 2000 Land Rover Discovery 2... I bought it from a dude who has a shop all the way in Burlingame, so there is no way im towing it from here (sac area) to there (SF area) to see if he can fix it when I know itll cost a **** load of money to get there then fixed once the problem is found.
So I was driving home from rosa when the battery light came on, I got all the way to Fairfield which is like an hr and 10 minutes from when it first came on... when all the sudden my stereo turned off and all the dash lights came on. Having the anxiety I do, I immediatly got off the hwy and turned off my car, thinking I had lost all power. I tried cranking it over an it just canked hella times, no power.
Got it towed home then a few days later had somebody look at it. We took the altenator to autozone and they checked it, said it was good. Same with the battery, but thats brand new. So I tried having somebody jump it and it started, a couple of the dash lights still on, plus the battery light but it ran. I drove it about 3 minutes down the road to my parents in laws and after turning it off, it wouldnt start again. Had it jumped again and it made it all the way to the intersection, then as I excellerated it lost power an got real slow.... I made it through the intersection then to the side of the road... Had to get it jumped again then got it home which was right there anyway.... So its losing power somehow.. Its not the altenator so Im not sure at all. I know I had the AC on the entire day I was driving it the day it died on me as well as the stereo but not using those things when ive been testing it out after being jumped, so not sure if those things may be draining it at all? but how if im not even using them...?
I just need some help on some ideas, i just moved to this new town and dont have a ****in car anymore and i need one. especially this one with AC. please help me if you can think of anything? I dont have the money for a dyno either so thats out of the question.
Thank You!
p.s. just had it jumped and kept it connected for about 5 minutes. when I took the cables off it still ran but then about 3 minutes later, all the lights on the dash started to apear and you could hear it losing power.. I put my foot on the gas and kept it reving for a minute and it seemed to gain a little bit back then it slowly just died completely with no more lights on the dash, key still turned over.
I have a 2000 Land Rover Discovery 2... I bought it from a dude who has a shop all the way in Burlingame, so there is no way im towing it from here (sac area) to there (SF area) to see if he can fix it when I know itll cost a **** load of money to get there then fixed once the problem is found.
So I was driving home from rosa when the battery light came on, I got all the way to Fairfield which is like an hr and 10 minutes from when it first came on... when all the sudden my stereo turned off and all the dash lights came on. Having the anxiety I do, I immediatly got off the hwy and turned off my car, thinking I had lost all power. I tried cranking it over an it just canked hella times, no power.
Got it towed home then a few days later had somebody look at it. We took the altenator to autozone and they checked it, said it was good. Same with the battery, but thats brand new. So I tried having somebody jump it and it started, a couple of the dash lights still on, plus the battery light but it ran. I drove it about 3 minutes down the road to my parents in laws and after turning it off, it wouldnt start again. Had it jumped again and it made it all the way to the intersection, then as I excellerated it lost power an got real slow.... I made it through the intersection then to the side of the road... Had to get it jumped again then got it home which was right there anyway.... So its losing power somehow.. Its not the altenator so Im not sure at all. I know I had the AC on the entire day I was driving it the day it died on me as well as the stereo but not using those things when ive been testing it out after being jumped, so not sure if those things may be draining it at all? but how if im not even using them...?
I just need some help on some ideas, i just moved to this new town and dont have a ****in car anymore and i need one. especially this one with AC. please help me if you can think of anything? I dont have the money for a dyno either so thats out of the question.
Thank You!
p.s. just had it jumped and kept it connected for about 5 minutes. when I took the cables off it still ran but then about 3 minutes later, all the lights on the dash started to apear and you could hear it losing power.. I put my foot on the gas and kept it reving for a minute and it seemed to gain a little bit back then it slowly just died completely with no more lights on the dash, key still turned over.
#2
08-09-2011, 06:00 PM
That is classic alternator symptoms. Alternators should be tested IN VEHICLE with a load on them Load being high beams and AC on high. Not out of vehicle.
Also, at this point, you're gonna need a battery as well or have it tested. At rest it should be putting out no lest that 11.9 volts. Running, it should have 14.0v. Some people think lower than 14 is ok, but it isnt.
Also, at this point, you're gonna need a battery as well or have it tested. At rest it should be putting out no lest that 11.9 volts. Running, it should have 14.0v. Some people think lower than 14 is ok, but it isnt.
#3
08-09-2011, 07:55 PM
Thank you, I currently have the battery at autozone. It was at 0 battery life so they have to recharge it then re-test it. Im figuring I am just going to have to throw down the 400 for a new altenator and a hundred for the battery, and if it all works after this, it will be worth it.
Is there any good sites to order parts off of that might be a bit cheaper than autozone and those types of places?
Is there any good sites to order parts off of that might be a bit cheaper than autozone and those types of places?
#5
08-09-2011, 09:39 PM
Your battery is toast if not from an internal cell failure then from the multiple discharged you hit it with that destroys a lead acid battery. Buy the new batt and once installed hook up a multi-meter across your battery terminals and you should see very close to 14 volt if the alternator is functioning. You can pick up a nice 150amp alternator for 140$.
#6
08-09-2011, 10:06 PM
Super Moderator
And while you are tinkering with all this, and the battery is disconnected, remove the two large wire connectors bolted in the under hood fuse box and clean them up as well. The current has to go through them to most everywhere else, so a little junk on them can have an impact.
You could have had a battery with dead cell, won't hold a charge; and poor connections. Alternator may be good, but others have nailed it; test it in the car, you may have connector or lug issues. Here's how I do it and why:
1. Volt meter across battery terminals, engine off. This is a baseline voltage, should be above 12.6.
2. Switch on a load, like the head lights. Volts will drop, but should not go below 11. When the starter kicks in, at 350 amp drain, it wants to be no lower than 10.5 volts. Normally, if battery is very weak, or has a dead cell, the headlight test will produce a big swing in voltage. And in many cases you get the click, but not the turn of the starter.
3. Crank the engine. Measure volts across battery at idle. Should be well higher than baseline, and climbing toward the high 13's or just over 14. That shows that alternator has output, and that it's regulator is charging the battery back up. But we are not done. The alternator has to put out enough amps to run everything, and still charge the battery. Will put out more amps at higher RPM.
4. Turn on head lights, AC, fan on high, wipers, and radio. Voltage may drop a little, but still need to be 13 or better, IMHO. What you are doing is testing with a load, which will detect if alternator has a bad diode inside. The alternator uses diodes to change the AC voltage into DC. There are a number of these diodes, and if one is out, the alternator drops 33% of the output amps. If the wrong 2 are out, 66% is lost. So you can crank and work OK, but when it rains, and you have on the lights, wipers, defrost, the battery runs down, fuel pump quits, etc. That's because the low output alternator can't keep up with the load, and battery is drained. Battery warning light may not come on when this is happening. Again, if something is not working, volatge will be headed back to the baseline or below.
5. Another test you can do with that meter is to read from the center of the battery post to the outside of the connector, while there is a load on the battery. You will see some small voltage "drop", caused by the resistance of the connection. Have corroded lugs, that drop will be higher. The lugs on large wires in the fuse box are also a spot to check and clean up, as well as that 100 amp main fuse. 1/4 volt here, 1/10 volt there, pretty soon it adds up.
6. If alternator is suspect - my choices in order would be:
A. Local alternator/starter rebuilding shop - or DIY - there are posts with photos on the web, and videos - not a good idea if leaving on vacation
B. pre-owned unit from a reputable dismantler (several on the forum), or some one parting out their beloved
C. salvage yard unit (would be a factory model - but warranty and testing are questions to ask - can you bring it back)
D. Units from any of the auto parts stores - plan for a 50% failure rate - but they are close by.
E. On line factory level parts dealers
F. Dealership ( highest price possible )
You could have had a battery with dead cell, won't hold a charge; and poor connections. Alternator may be good, but others have nailed it; test it in the car, you may have connector or lug issues. Here's how I do it and why:
1. Volt meter across battery terminals, engine off. This is a baseline voltage, should be above 12.6.
2. Switch on a load, like the head lights. Volts will drop, but should not go below 11. When the starter kicks in, at 350 amp drain, it wants to be no lower than 10.5 volts. Normally, if battery is very weak, or has a dead cell, the headlight test will produce a big swing in voltage. And in many cases you get the click, but not the turn of the starter.
3. Crank the engine. Measure volts across battery at idle. Should be well higher than baseline, and climbing toward the high 13's or just over 14. That shows that alternator has output, and that it's regulator is charging the battery back up. But we are not done. The alternator has to put out enough amps to run everything, and still charge the battery. Will put out more amps at higher RPM.
4. Turn on head lights, AC, fan on high, wipers, and radio. Voltage may drop a little, but still need to be 13 or better, IMHO. What you are doing is testing with a load, which will detect if alternator has a bad diode inside. The alternator uses diodes to change the AC voltage into DC. There are a number of these diodes, and if one is out, the alternator drops 33% of the output amps. If the wrong 2 are out, 66% is lost. So you can crank and work OK, but when it rains, and you have on the lights, wipers, defrost, the battery runs down, fuel pump quits, etc. That's because the low output alternator can't keep up with the load, and battery is drained. Battery warning light may not come on when this is happening. Again, if something is not working, volatge will be headed back to the baseline or below.
5. Another test you can do with that meter is to read from the center of the battery post to the outside of the connector, while there is a load on the battery. You will see some small voltage "drop", caused by the resistance of the connection. Have corroded lugs, that drop will be higher. The lugs on large wires in the fuse box are also a spot to check and clean up, as well as that 100 amp main fuse. 1/4 volt here, 1/10 volt there, pretty soon it adds up.
6. If alternator is suspect - my choices in order would be:
A. Local alternator/starter rebuilding shop - or DIY - there are posts with photos on the web, and videos - not a good idea if leaving on vacation
B. pre-owned unit from a reputable dismantler (several on the forum), or some one parting out their beloved
C. salvage yard unit (would be a factory model - but warranty and testing are questions to ask - can you bring it back)
D. Units from any of the auto parts stores - plan for a 50% failure rate - but they are close by.
E. On line factory level parts dealers
F. Dealership ( highest price possible )
Last edited by Savannah Buzz; 08-09-2011 at 10:17 PM.
#7
08-10-2011, 02:25 PM
And while you are tinkering with all this, and the battery is disconnected, remove the two large wire connectors bolted in the under hood fuse box and clean them up as well. The current has to go through them to most everywhere else, so a little junk on them can have an impact.
You could have had a battery with dead cell, won't hold a charge; and poor connections. Alternator may be good, but others have nailed it; test it in the car, you may have connector or lug issues. Here's how I do it and why:
1. Volt meter across battery terminals, engine off. This is a baseline voltage, should be above 12.6.
2. Switch on a load, like the head lights. Volts will drop, but should not go below 11. When the starter kicks in, at 350 amp drain, it wants to be no lower than 10.5 volts. Normally, if battery is very weak, or has a dead cell, the headlight test will produce a big swing in voltage. And in many cases you get the click, but not the turn of the starter.
3. Crank the engine. Measure volts across battery at idle. Should be well higher than baseline, and climbing toward the high 13's or just over 14. That shows that alternator has output, and that it's regulator is charging the battery back up. But we are not done. The alternator has to put out enough amps to run everything, and still charge the battery. Will put out more amps at higher RPM.
4. Turn on head lights, AC, fan on high, wipers, and radio. Voltage may drop a little, but still need to be 13 or better, IMHO. What you are doing is testing with a load, which will detect if alternator has a bad diode inside. The alternator uses diodes to change the AC voltage into DC. There are a number of these diodes, and if one is out, the alternator drops 33% of the output amps. If the wrong 2 are out, 66% is lost. So you can crank and work OK, but when it rains, and you have on the lights, wipers, defrost, the battery runs down, fuel pump quits, etc. That's because the low output alternator can't keep up with the load, and battery is drained. Battery warning light may not come on when this is happening. Again, if something is not working, volatge will be headed back to the baseline or below.
5. Another test you can do with that meter is to read from the center of the battery post to the outside of the connector, while there is a load on the battery. You will see some small voltage "drop", caused by the resistance of the connection. Have corroded lugs, that drop will be higher. The lugs on large wires in the fuse box are also a spot to check and clean up, as well as that 100 amp main fuse. 1/4 volt here, 1/10 volt there, pretty soon it adds up.
6. If alternator is suspect - my choices in order would be:
A. Local alternator/starter rebuilding shop - or DIY - there are posts with photos on the web, and videos - not a good idea if leaving on vacation
B. pre-owned unit from a reputable dismantler (several on the forum), or some one parting out their beloved
C. salvage yard unit (would be a factory model - but warranty and testing are questions to ask - can you bring it back)
D. Units from any of the auto parts stores - plan for a 50% failure rate - but they are close by.
E. On line factory level parts dealers
F. Dealership ( highest price possible )
You could have had a battery with dead cell, won't hold a charge; and poor connections. Alternator may be good, but others have nailed it; test it in the car, you may have connector or lug issues. Here's how I do it and why:
1. Volt meter across battery terminals, engine off. This is a baseline voltage, should be above 12.6.
2. Switch on a load, like the head lights. Volts will drop, but should not go below 11. When the starter kicks in, at 350 amp drain, it wants to be no lower than 10.5 volts. Normally, if battery is very weak, or has a dead cell, the headlight test will produce a big swing in voltage. And in many cases you get the click, but not the turn of the starter.
3. Crank the engine. Measure volts across battery at idle. Should be well higher than baseline, and climbing toward the high 13's or just over 14. That shows that alternator has output, and that it's regulator is charging the battery back up. But we are not done. The alternator has to put out enough amps to run everything, and still charge the battery. Will put out more amps at higher RPM.
4. Turn on head lights, AC, fan on high, wipers, and radio. Voltage may drop a little, but still need to be 13 or better, IMHO. What you are doing is testing with a load, which will detect if alternator has a bad diode inside. The alternator uses diodes to change the AC voltage into DC. There are a number of these diodes, and if one is out, the alternator drops 33% of the output amps. If the wrong 2 are out, 66% is lost. So you can crank and work OK, but when it rains, and you have on the lights, wipers, defrost, the battery runs down, fuel pump quits, etc. That's because the low output alternator can't keep up with the load, and battery is drained. Battery warning light may not come on when this is happening. Again, if something is not working, volatge will be headed back to the baseline or below.
5. Another test you can do with that meter is to read from the center of the battery post to the outside of the connector, while there is a load on the battery. You will see some small voltage "drop", caused by the resistance of the connection. Have corroded lugs, that drop will be higher. The lugs on large wires in the fuse box are also a spot to check and clean up, as well as that 100 amp main fuse. 1/4 volt here, 1/10 volt there, pretty soon it adds up.
6. If alternator is suspect - my choices in order would be:
A. Local alternator/starter rebuilding shop - or DIY - there are posts with photos on the web, and videos - not a good idea if leaving on vacation
B. pre-owned unit from a reputable dismantler (several on the forum), or some one parting out their beloved
C. salvage yard unit (would be a factory model - but warranty and testing are questions to ask - can you bring it back)
D. Units from any of the auto parts stores - plan for a 50% failure rate - but they are close by.
E. On line factory level parts dealers
F. Dealership ( highest price possible )
Very Nice write up
!!
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