I like your style.

 

Since most people post problems and don't post the fix once they've found it, I shall be different: here is the outcome--

I pulled the heads and had them resurfaced, as well as a valve job and new valve seals (duh). The liners in the block appeared positioned properly and were not able to be moved, wiggled or jarred by hand, so that made me happy. The valve job and resurfacing cost approximately $250.00.

I had purchased a head gasket kit, head bolts and a #5 spark plug wire (ripped the boot off while removing) for $236.43. I replaced the head gaskets (again, duh) and just about every seal/gasket that came with the kit. I also replaced the thermostat with a LR OEM 180 degree thermostat that I purchased from Roversnorth.com for $89.38.

I purchased miscellaneous tools for the job, to the tune of about $100.00. I'd guess another $100 for oil, filter, coolant, brake cleaner, rags, etc.

After all was put together, the engine wouldn't start. I put a couple gallons of gas in it and it fired right up. Oops. The SES light came on, which concerned me, but nonetheless, I was happy it turned on. I went to the local auto parts store and they ran a diagnostics test, revealing the following codes:


P0130 O2 sensor (bank 1, sensor 1)
P0130 O sensor (bank 2, sensor 1)
P1590 Rough Road (probably ABS related, as I have pretty much every brake light illuminated on the dash)
P1668: Anti Theft alarm serial link fault drive cycle
signal out of range - Above maximum


I replaced the front (upstream) o2 sensors with brand new Bosch 15175, and got even more codes:

P1668-Anti theft alarm serial link fault drive cycle
P0130 (x2) O2 sensor (bank 1, sensor 1 and bank 2, sensor 1)
P0300 Random/multiple cylinder misfire detected
P0304 Cylinder 4 misfire detected
P0154 O2 sensor circuit no activity detected bank 2 sensor 1
P0155 O2 sensor heater circuit bank 2, sensor 1
P1590 rough road


This really confused me, so I inspected the connections and realized that one of the harness clips hadn't clipped all of the way, and the other had 2 of the wires (ECU side) slip out of the clip. After some contortionist madness with my arms, I was able to reinsert the dislodged wires into the harness clip. Boom. No SES light and vehicle runs beautifully.

I purchased an Ultragauge because why not, and confirmed no trouble codes, however the P1590 still appears under "pending codes." I'll be buying the 3 amigos code reader and troubleshooting the ABS issue, which, when resolved and repaired, I believe will eliminate the P1590. So that's that. Much cheaper than a mechanic and much more fulfilling.

 

good to hear..
1590 is the generic code for brake problem. if you are near me I can loan you amigo amigo.
the 1668 was prolly set off from battery low/disconnect. it should cycle out. I think

 

P1668 did in fact cycle out.

I love the slow clap.

I am in Tucson, AZ, so not really near you.

 

A few mysteries solved by applying simple physics to the approach.

As far as bleeding the system and the waterfall noise in the passenger compartment. Lets remember that when hot/under pessure every cooling system becomes a closed system after the first time you heat it up. But when cold you can break that seal which is fine because gravity keeps the fluid levels equal thus not allowing air into the system. much the same way the trap on the sink in your house which stops methane gasses from getting into your home.

Now for why the land rover way to bleed the system is the only way to do it right and its simple.

This applys to both D1's and D2's..

If you look at a picture of the truck from the side and draw a vertical line across it at level with the top of the radiator. you will notice that both the heater core and the bleed cap sit above plane with the rest of the system.

As for the heater core and the water fall noise this is do to an air pocket that gets trapped in the part of the heater core that is above plane withth the rest of the system. That said if you have even a pin hole or loose clamp bad head gasket ETC.ETC. Air is making its way into what should be a closed system. With air getting into the system it will make its way to the top of the heater core causing the water fall noise. Most likely cause for this is a pin hole in the heater core itself which is very common for all older cars. I recommend bypassing the heater core by pulling the hoses off the fire wall and hooking them together. this will give a good idea of weather the heater core is bad or not. pin holes in the heater core can cause an over heating problem to resurface moths later after you have done tons of work and spent tons of money replacing everything else to no avail.

As far as bleeding the system you must have a bleed orafice above the radiator if you dont have the factory one in the rad hose that runs over the cowl or in the T fitting that connects the 3 hoses to the left of the AC compessor you need to get the oem parts or plumb one in to either of those locations they are clearly pointed out on diagrams in the rave just look up cooling system drain and refill.

Now for simple physics if you take a clear hose and fill it water stand at the top of a stair case and have another at the bottom with a pole to hold the hose end up to same level as the person at the top the sairs the water at both ends of the hose will be level on the same spacial plane. if you were to have a third person hold the hose up in the center to same hieght then you would have a bubble in the middle. Trust me it never fails.

Now apply this Simple theory to your cooling system if part of the heater core sits above the rest of the cooling system then you have the potential to get an air bubble in the heater core this air bubble can migrate or split into 2 or 3 or more bubbles. Now one of those bubble can migrate to the thermostat housing and get cuaght in there thus allowing the thermostat to cool down and close up on you.

So when the rave tells you to unclip the hose from the top of the cowl and open the bleeder and raise the overlow tank. that opens the system at it's highest piont and puts the over flow into a potision to gravity feed and push any air out of the system.

This was an oversite in the heater design location and can only be rectified by bleeding the system the way they tell you. Or to or bypass or relocate the heater core lower in the system.

If you can have your system pressureized and watch for leak down if it does find it. leaks dont allway present them selves by fliud spilling out some of those can actually close up as the system heats up. Remember simple physics when thins get hot they expand thus closing gaps. but when the system cools down it can suck air in. Which common sense tells me is the cuase of alot of overheating and cooling system problems withese cars.

Last but not least use THE ORANGE COOLANT I cannot stress this enough. These are all aluminum motors and having owned BMW's before. Remember these motors were originally desinged and built by bosch. Which are most notable for there formula1 engines. that saud they are way over engineered for a utility aplication so treat the motor like its from a porsche or beemer. To get the performace specs they were looking for in an SUV the engine runns hotter and the orange coolant is desined to haddle that heat and keap the motor at its safe running temperature. The green stuff does not do it. remember these motors were disined by race engineers so the normal peramitters do not apply.


I hope this helps. I love this forum it has been supper helpful so I hope this helps others understand the cooling sytem better.

 

Gets popcorn and a chair.

 

colson2003 is my new hero.

"Remember these motors were originally desinged and built by bosch. Which are most notable for there formula1 engines. that saud they are way over engineered for a utility aplication so treat the motor like its from a porsche or beemer. To get the performace specs they were looking for in an SUV the engine runns hotter and the orange coolant is desined to haddle that heat and keap the motor at its safe running temperature"

 

Colson2003, there's some good info in your post, but you should do some googling on dexcool.

Dexcool Pictures

You couldn't pay me to run that goo in my truck.

Also, the engines are a Buick design from the 60s. So they are kind of the opposite of a modern F1 engine.

 

The only point I was trying to make is that the heater core is above plane with the rest of the system. Thus creating a place for air to get trapped in the system. Land Rover are not the first to do this. As far as not reading certified reference material to be better informed and to say you know better than the people who desinged the system and fully understand everything they did and what to expect when serviceing then you sir are not helping anyone. I'm a firm believer in finding a more efficient way to do things but ignoring simple physics just is not the way to go about it.

So my point is. By design these systems are prone to an air bubble that typically resides in the top of the heater core causing that waterfall sound so many people talk about. This air can migrate though the system causing all kinds of intermittent and some times cronic problems. Does this not make sense?

anyway you need to get that out and the most logical way to do this is by raising the overflow and having a bleed orifice above plane with the rest of the system. Why do you think they tell you to unclip the hose from the cowl this gets the bleeder just high enough to do its job.

So without a manual you would not know that. Sure one can force the coolant through the system by running the engine while filling it but why would you do that? land rover has provided you with a simple efctive solution that work without wasting gas. Not to mention if there is another problem then you will just heat it up and remember the inside were you have low or no coolant things heat up extremely fast not to mention this is aluminium people its heating and cooling propertys are vastly diferent than iron.

I will say it again the very first thing you should do when tracking a cooling problem is 1 bleed the system. 2 check for leeks and not just fliud coming out. some leeks are vacume leeks letting air in as the system cools for instance around hose clamps (replace those factory ones). 3 check for mechanical failure radiator, fan, pump, thermostat, ETC. 4 use the correct coolant mixture 50/50 of whatever coolant floats your boat but I did the research here it is. FYI if you read about glycol solutions they need to be mixed with the right amount of water to perform in the range you want. more or less water will change how it performs dramaticaly.


Green: ethelene glycol. 50/50
Boiling piont. +225F
Freezing piont. -36f
BTU/heat transfer. 0.8
Viscosity. 0.7

Orange. Popylene Glycal. 50/50
Boiling Piont. +287f
Freezing Piont. -29
BTU/heat transfer. 0.9
Viscosity. 0.8

So there it is. not a huge amount of performance difference on paper. But from my experience in the automotive world even the slightest increase in performance can go a long way. Then you add in the fact that its less corosive on aliminium. I think I will go for the orange stuff but you can make the green stuff work fine just watch out when facing extreme conditions.

So for those being bullies on here **** Off!! no one needs your negative bull**** go read a book and boost your inflated egos with some real useful knowledge just because you learned how to work on you car from uncle Jed in the back yard does not make anyone gods gift to cars. Most of us are here to help each other.

To all the rest read!!!!! Stay informed, ask qeustions, find answers and make informed decisions. God bless knowledge and all the places it comes from. Be positive free thinkers people.

 

Well there you go again rovermaster tech. By the way who gave you the title master rover tech? You are wrong again 3/4 of a inch of the top of the heatercore is indeed above the the rest of the cooling system. Maybe the Next thing your going to tell me is the heater core isn't part of the cooling system.

Sure you can run the motor while bleeding the system but why would you? In no shop manual I have read and I have read a lot of them most note worthy are the ones I was researching when I worked RR'ing motors and transmisions for Ford at a dealership in Irondiquit New York for 5 years. Oh let me mention I was also a licensed building contractor for over 10 years and the number of automotive and other certifications I poses. Yet I dont't go around calling myself a master of anything.

I belong to these forums to trade info get help and help others Every car is the same in so many ways and yet so different.

Quit being such a D-bag and offer up something useful.

So the being said.

Cooling system diagnostics 101. (so rovermaster tech copy and post something useful)

1. Check your coolant level

2. Inspect your hoses, overflow, and, any other external components for cracks, leaks, and, wear. if anything looks funky attend to it. If all is good move on if repair problems

3. Flush the system.

4. fill the system and bleed it. Do it how ever you want but the rover way works best and its simple.

5. Optional pressure test(when the motor is cold) this will reveal any pin holes or bad clamps or seals. As I stated earlier all cooling sytems are prone to vacuum leaks when the system is cooling down.

6. now run the engine to operating temp.

7. Let it cool and add fluid if needed.

all that said if you are still overheating or looseing coolant with no visible sings of fluid on the ground you will definitly need to do a cold pressure test. just like a compression test and look for leak down in the guage. just remember land rover systems are designed for 15 psi operating range and will release pressure over that from the cap.

This test will show you if there is a internal problem and thats for another thread.

So if you are over heating after replacing all the components of the system chances are you have air in the system. For those who are frustrated like I was with this recurring problem its air migrating to the thermo housing and causing a pocket around the thermo thus letting it cool off enough to close back up. I am more than possitive about this I could see the air bubble in the housing and when I checked the temp with my laser thermometer the housing with the air pocket it read 160 to 70ish thus allowing the thermo to close. with the air out of the system the thermo housing read the same temp as the engine. This I know because I had my OBDII meter hooked and its not some cheap one and metered the full real time data set while the car was running. I guess I was wasting gas Oh wait that was the joke earlier and you didnt get it then iether.

Uless we are talking religion I'm gonna go with the science and say it does not lie. So before you go spitting back yard mechanic crap all over this forum do some research for your self and maybe apply some of that to your way of life or just leave us all alone.

I may not be a Rovermaster tech by self definition but I would like think 20 years of profesional experience in automotives and other related fields gives me leg to stand on.

To all fallowing this I hope that within the body of these post's you will find something that helps. I will no longer get into debates with Rovermaster tech. In the future I will post only the science and if I can help I will. As for this forum I have found it to be very helpful and some pretty cool discusions that have steered me in the right derection be new the the rover world but not stranger to the wrench

good day to all.