Door Lock Issues
#1
05-18-2020, 06:34 PM
Door Lock Issues
Ok Guys So i was trying to find some threads on my particular locking issues but they are some i could not find.
I'm fairly new owner and i have two 04' D2s actually... One with the lock issues is an SE and the other SE7 but has frame rot and a head gasket issue but is in really good shape... but that is for another time for total restore.
The SE which is a little rough but has a good frame and runs well but has the 3 Amigos with i think an O2 Sensor and the ABS Modulator issue which i will tackle next...
But these damn locks are driving crazy a bit... Let me explain the situation.
So this car didn't come with remote locking fob. Are these lower SE models typically not having remote entry? And i didn't ask the prior owner if it ever had a fob...
But do you think i could order a fob and how would i go about that?
The next part is i went ahead and bought a brand new door lock on the drivers side as i watched a YT video to replace it, he mentioned if you hear the clicking when you depress the lock button inside that its most likely a mechanical issue with the lock and not electrical. This was the case, so i bought a brand new one. So i install it and i now have the issue it doesn't work. I hit the lock button on the dash, the other door's manual tab goes up and down. (Passenger doors only as i have rear driver and rear hatch not working either...But i digress).
So the drivers manual door lock tab doesn't even move up and down?? And come to think of i'm not sure old one did either?? I cant even move it up and down manually?? I here a clicking just like the one i replaced but the lock does not work electrically... And I also noticed now that the Key lock just freely spins and doesn't engage the lock. WTF did i do here?? So i am at a cross roads here with being able to lock this rig. AND i know i still have to fix the other two doors but i need to get this main driver's door done first. I'm going to look in the Rave but any help would be appreciated. Oh and what is this "Super Lock" i have read about in some other posts?
Sorry for the long rant but maybe this will help me for the next two locks... Thanks Guys!
I'm fairly new owner and i have two 04' D2s actually... One with the lock issues is an SE and the other SE7 but has frame rot and a head gasket issue but is in really good shape... but that is for another time for total restore.
The SE which is a little rough but has a good frame and runs well but has the 3 Amigos with i think an O2 Sensor and the ABS Modulator issue which i will tackle next...
But these damn locks are driving crazy a bit... Let me explain the situation.
So this car didn't come with remote locking fob. Are these lower SE models typically not having remote entry? And i didn't ask the prior owner if it ever had a fob...
But do you think i could order a fob and how would i go about that?
The next part is i went ahead and bought a brand new door lock on the drivers side as i watched a YT video to replace it, he mentioned if you hear the clicking when you depress the lock button inside that its most likely a mechanical issue with the lock and not electrical. This was the case, so i bought a brand new one. So i install it and i now have the issue it doesn't work. I hit the lock button on the dash, the other door's manual tab goes up and down. (Passenger doors only as i have rear driver and rear hatch not working either...But i digress).
So the drivers manual door lock tab doesn't even move up and down?? And come to think of i'm not sure old one did either?? I cant even move it up and down manually?? I here a clicking just like the one i replaced but the lock does not work electrically... And I also noticed now that the Key lock just freely spins and doesn't engage the lock. WTF did i do here?? So i am at a cross roads here with being able to lock this rig. AND i know i still have to fix the other two doors but i need to get this main driver's door done first. I'm going to look in the Rave but any help would be appreciated. Oh and what is this "Super Lock" i have read about in some other posts?
Sorry for the long rant but maybe this will help me for the next two locks... Thanks Guys!
Last edited by RoverSE7; 05-18-2020 at 06:45 PM.
#2
05-19-2020, 07:46 PM
Camel Trophy
Ok, the locks are pretty complicated, they probably need a video to fully explain (which I do not have time to do right now), but let me walk through a few basics:
1. The inside door handle should always unlock the lock and disengage the latch, except if it is superlocked. Superlocked means it can only be unlocked with a key or fob.
2. When the door is locked, the outside handle will pull on the latch lever but not disengage the latch. It is spring loaded in a slotted lever.
3. The mechanical lock tab that sticks up through the door card will lock the door, but not unlock it. It is one way spring loaded in a slotted lever.
4. There are two small electric motors in the lock, one for the normal lock, one for the superlock. They actually rotate opposite directions, and have different size worm gears. The normal failure mode on the lock is for the normal lock motor brushes to wear out and cause the motor to stop working.
5. The lock will function perfectly without the superlock motor.
6. The key lock cylinder turns a rod that engages a lever that engages electrical contacts in the mechanism. If the key lock turns with no mechanical resistance, the rod is likely broken or not properly engaged in the socket. I believe Abran is the forum member that sells the billet lock rods to repair the broken ones.
7. Start your troubleshooting by removing the lock mechanism from the door. Plug it back in to the electrical connector after you have it out. You should hear lock motors and see the levers move when you hit the lock switch button. If you don't, you either have a bad motor (unlikely on a new one) or a bad wire (Very rare - most likely a door jamb issue).
8. Every SE I have owned (maybe 7 to 9)had a fob and remote. You can order a replacement out of the UK for around $100 from remotekey.co.uk.
Report back and we can help more.
1. The inside door handle should always unlock the lock and disengage the latch, except if it is superlocked. Superlocked means it can only be unlocked with a key or fob.
2. When the door is locked, the outside handle will pull on the latch lever but not disengage the latch. It is spring loaded in a slotted lever.
3. The mechanical lock tab that sticks up through the door card will lock the door, but not unlock it. It is one way spring loaded in a slotted lever.
4. There are two small electric motors in the lock, one for the normal lock, one for the superlock. They actually rotate opposite directions, and have different size worm gears. The normal failure mode on the lock is for the normal lock motor brushes to wear out and cause the motor to stop working.
5. The lock will function perfectly without the superlock motor.
6. The key lock cylinder turns a rod that engages a lever that engages electrical contacts in the mechanism. If the key lock turns with no mechanical resistance, the rod is likely broken or not properly engaged in the socket. I believe Abran is the forum member that sells the billet lock rods to repair the broken ones.
7. Start your troubleshooting by removing the lock mechanism from the door. Plug it back in to the electrical connector after you have it out. You should hear lock motors and see the levers move when you hit the lock switch button. If you don't, you either have a bad motor (unlikely on a new one) or a bad wire (Very rare - most likely a door jamb issue).
8. Every SE I have owned (maybe 7 to 9)had a fob and remote. You can order a replacement out of the UK for around $100 from remotekey.co.uk.
Report back and we can help more.
#3
05-20-2020, 05:42 AM
Ok, the locks are pretty complicated, they probably need a video to fully explain (which I do not have time to do right now), but let me walk through a few basics:
1. The inside door handle should always unlock the lock and disengage the latch, except if it is superlocked. Superlocked means it can only be unlocked with a key or fob.
2. When the door is locked, the outside handle will pull on the latch lever but not disengage the latch. It is spring loaded in a slotted lever.
3. The mechanical lock tab that sticks up through the door card will lock the door, but not unlock it. It is one way spring loaded in a slotted lever.
4. There are two small electric motors in the lock, one for the normal lock, one for the superlock. They actually rotate opposite directions, and have different size worm gears. The normal failure mode on the lock is for the normal lock motor brushes to wear out and cause the motor to stop working.
5. The lock will function perfectly without the superlock motor.
6. The key lock cylinder turns a rod that engages a lever that engages electrical contacts in the mechanism. If the key lock turns with no mechanical resistance, the rod is likely broken or not properly engaged in the socket. I believe Abran is the forum member that sells the billet lock rods to repair the broken ones.
7. Start your troubleshooting by removing the lock mechanism from the door. Plug it back in to the electrical connector after you have it out. You should hear lock motors and see the levers move when you hit the lock switch button. If you don't, you either have a bad motor (unlikely on a new one) or a bad wire (Very rare - most likely a door jamb issue).
8. Every SE I have owned (maybe 7 to 9)had a fob and remote. You can order a replacement out of the UK for around $100 from remotekey.co.uk.
Report back and we can help more.
1. The inside door handle should always unlock the lock and disengage the latch, except if it is superlocked. Superlocked means it can only be unlocked with a key or fob.
2. When the door is locked, the outside handle will pull on the latch lever but not disengage the latch. It is spring loaded in a slotted lever.
3. The mechanical lock tab that sticks up through the door card will lock the door, but not unlock it. It is one way spring loaded in a slotted lever.
4. There are two small electric motors in the lock, one for the normal lock, one for the superlock. They actually rotate opposite directions, and have different size worm gears. The normal failure mode on the lock is for the normal lock motor brushes to wear out and cause the motor to stop working.
5. The lock will function perfectly without the superlock motor.
6. The key lock cylinder turns a rod that engages a lever that engages electrical contacts in the mechanism. If the key lock turns with no mechanical resistance, the rod is likely broken or not properly engaged in the socket. I believe Abran is the forum member that sells the billet lock rods to repair the broken ones.
7. Start your troubleshooting by removing the lock mechanism from the door. Plug it back in to the electrical connector after you have it out. You should hear lock motors and see the levers move when you hit the lock switch button. If you don't, you either have a bad motor (unlikely on a new one) or a bad wire (Very rare - most likely a door jamb issue).
8. Every SE I have owned (maybe 7 to 9)had a fob and remote. You can order a replacement out of the UK for around $100 from remotekey.co.uk.
Report back and we can help more.
I'll have to pull the handle. It does seem that there may be this rod i did find after i took the old one out, i was not sure what this was...
I will have to further check the electrical issue to see the mechanics as you suggest I assume because the lock seem to be stuck is with the pull rod is not working. Seems odd that i cannot pull the rod to manually lock the door.
Thanks again for your help
#4
05-20-2020, 12:26 PM
Recovery Vehicle
#5
05-24-2020, 07:46 AM
Hello Extinct. Locks are complicated? Hell yeah!
So i wrote to the seller Land Leaping Genuine British Parts, where i bought the lock from on Amazon, just to alert the problem that i think this lock may not be working. They seem very reputable and and sell all kind of LR and Jag parts. it was an original LR part and labeled box. It looks brand new so would think it was not the motor. BUT i pulled it out as you said to and i only hear the clicking and no actual movement of parts. I want to try plugging it in with the Passenger side plug (which does work) to eliminate any wiring issue?? I have to take that side apart anyway as that has a window issue... Just love these trucks i do
With exception of the wiring that may be attached to the Keyed lock switch which that might only be on the drivers side, hopefully the plugs are interchangeable so i can rule out the bad wiring.
That said, did also try the cylinder lock rod that i found broken off and manually stuck it in the cross hatched slot in the lock motor and all i'm getting there is relay clicking at the dash. So this is quite strange that maybe it's not the lock at all and my old one was fine?? Maybe there is some other wiring or relay issue i'm thinking..
Have to try this out and see. And that dang rod is like $30 on Ebay but also seems like it would be a PITA to get the tiny spring pin out and even harder to put back in to replace it. I was wondering if some good old mold able steel epoxy would work? The only issue would be the rod alignment if hardened, that it may not fit back into the slotted port. that even the new rod would be a trick to get lined back up when putting the handle back. Just curious of your thoughts? UPDATE i'm not trying that epoxy fix... and save my self the headache and bit the $30 bullet and ordered this https://www.ebay.com/itm/264668212548
I hope all the members here are doing well and i appreciate all the feed back and advice that everyone shares here for these truly classic vehicles and i hope that this thread will help others that may have any of these issues. Thanks again.
Mike S.
So i wrote to the seller Land Leaping Genuine British Parts, where i bought the lock from on Amazon, just to alert the problem that i think this lock may not be working. They seem very reputable and and sell all kind of LR and Jag parts. it was an original LR part and labeled box. It looks brand new so would think it was not the motor. BUT i pulled it out as you said to and i only hear the clicking and no actual movement of parts. I want to try plugging it in with the Passenger side plug (which does work) to eliminate any wiring issue?? I have to take that side apart anyway as that has a window issue... Just love these trucks i do
With exception of the wiring that may be attached to the Keyed lock switch which that might only be on the drivers side, hopefully the plugs are interchangeable so i can rule out the bad wiring.That said, did also try the cylinder lock rod that i found broken off and manually stuck it in the cross hatched slot in the lock motor and all i'm getting there is relay clicking at the dash. So this is quite strange that maybe it's not the lock at all and my old one was fine?? Maybe there is some other wiring or relay issue i'm thinking..
Have to try this out and see. And that dang rod is like $30 on Ebay but also seems like it would be a PITA to get the tiny spring pin out and even harder to put back in to replace it. I was wondering if some good old mold able steel epoxy would work? The only issue would be the rod alignment if hardened, that it may not fit back into the slotted port. that even the new rod would be a trick to get lined back up when putting the handle back. Just curious of your thoughts? UPDATE i'm not trying that epoxy fix... and save my self the headache and bit the $30 bullet and ordered this https://www.ebay.com/itm/264668212548
I hope all the members here are doing well and i appreciate all the feed back and advice that everyone shares here for these truly classic vehicles and i hope that this thread will help others that may have any of these issues. Thanks again.
Mike S.
Last edited by RoverSE7; 05-24-2020 at 08:04 AM.
#6
05-25-2020, 06:59 AM
Camel Trophy
Post a video link to the lock mechanism out of the door but plugged in when you actuate it. We can diagnose from there. I have a dozen in various stages of disassembly and once I know more about what yours is doing I can provide a better diagnostic path.
As far as the pin, it is a tiny roll pin that needs to be driven out. If you are very cautious coming out you can get it out of the way without taking it all the way out of the opposite side, meaning you don't have the challenge of getting it started to come back in. Worst case you can replace it with a spring clip or cotter key, the spring clip is harder by the way and will last longer.
When you manually actuate the cross hatch rod it tells the BCU you have locked the doors and it should lock the other ones, there are two different programs available, either single twist to lock or double. Does yours lock the other doors? Do you still have your original mechanism? Plug it in and lets see it work (video). Also, you can actuate several of the mechanisms on the bench and video those, that helps determine if it works mechanically. The electrical portion is just for the central locking.
As far as the pin, it is a tiny roll pin that needs to be driven out. If you are very cautious coming out you can get it out of the way without taking it all the way out of the opposite side, meaning you don't have the challenge of getting it started to come back in. Worst case you can replace it with a spring clip or cotter key, the spring clip is harder by the way and will last longer.
When you manually actuate the cross hatch rod it tells the BCU you have locked the doors and it should lock the other ones, there are two different programs available, either single twist to lock or double. Does yours lock the other doors? Do you still have your original mechanism? Plug it in and lets see it work (video). Also, you can actuate several of the mechanisms on the bench and video those, that helps determine if it works mechanically. The electrical portion is just for the central locking.
#7
05-25-2020, 08:08 AM
I can certainly do that later today as the weather breaks. I would need my wife's help to do the video.. Not enough hands ya know?
I did plug it into the passenger side harness and it made this multi clicking sound as you'll see with the video. (not sure how to do tat yet but ill figure out how to upload it here And at first the old one did not do that... but then it did do it WTH??
And now i have another issue with the dang truck not starting Grrrr... and the flashers are staying on even after pushing the flasher button. I had to pull the fuse and then it stopped Maybe a relay sticking issue?? I think this truck has some major electrical issues and maybe is why it was a rebuilt title...
Be back with the video soon. thanks.
I did plug it into the passenger side harness and it made this multi clicking sound as you'll see with the video. (not sure how to do tat yet but ill figure out how to upload it here
And at first the old one did not do that... but then it did do it WTH?? And now i have another issue with the dang truck not starting Grrrr... and the flashers are staying on even after pushing the flasher button. I had to pull the fuse and then it stopped Maybe a relay sticking issue?? I think this truck has some major electrical issues and maybe is why it was a rebuilt title...
Be back with the video soon. thanks.
#8
05-26-2020, 05:42 PM
Yeah I don't know what going on now... the passenger side is not even working. i was going to do the video of the new and old lock and noticed that the passenger side is just clicking now and not locking or unlocking as before. I am wondering if there is a relay in the dash behind the lock button not working?
I am at loss with this. I hoping you or someone may have run into this before??
I am at loss with this. I hoping you or someone may have run into this before??
#9
05-26-2020, 06:54 PM
Camel Trophy
#10
05-27-2020, 03:04 AM
from the clicking at the doors
Oh btw what and where is the bcu? The main computer?