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  #61  
Old 04-23-2017 | 05:06 PM
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Hold up, you have a cylinder full of coolant? That's pretty definitive, you have a compromised intake or head gasket.
 
  #62  
Old 04-23-2017 | 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by KingKoopa
You could purge the rail for piece of mind but you shouldn't need to bleed the rail, I know I didn't.

Have you visually checked for spark on the bad cylinders? As in pulling the plug and connecting it to the wire and turning it over? That will definitively rule out a spark issue.

as far as the injectors are concerned. Make sure they are seated well in their cups on the rail, I was surprised at how difficult it was to get every injector seated correctly even though the o rings were well lubricated.

Quadruple check your vacuum lines. I found 4 leaks a week after I did my head gaskets and they were all super obvious places but the hoses appeared to be seated and the clamps were installed. Also had a Crack in the plastic intake tube around the base of the nipple where the IAC tube connects.
I think I'm going to purge the rail next weekend. It would be a good piece of mind for me.

Checking for spark is going to be the next thing we do. We didn't have all of our testers with us so we were limited today. Next weekend I'll test each cylinder with a diode light . If I have 8 brightly lite cylinders I have sparks in all cylinders. This is going to eat at me all week since it's the one test I wanted to get done today.

I'm pretty sure the injectors are seated correctly. The rail sat perfectly flush with the manifold, and all of the retaining clips were in place. I feel pretty confident that the seating was not the issue. I still feel as if I damaged the injectors while rebuilding them though.

I'm going to order new IAC tubes, and clamps since those have been getting worked over lately. I'm only going to replace the short soft tube sections that connect the SAI Control Valve to the pipes running behind the engine.

Originally Posted by KingKoopa
You should also probe each injector wire while turning the engine over. This will definitely tell you that each injector is getting signal.
This is also something that we talked about doing today, and something that I need to look into. I need find out how to perform this test since I've never had to do it, and never looked into it.

Originally Posted by KingKoopa
Hold up, you have a cylinder full of coolant? That's pretty definitive, you have a compromised intake or head gasket.
No no no. We had a cylinder full of gas. Cylinder 8 was full of gas cylinder 6 had less gas, and cylinder 4 had even less. All of these cylinders receiving so much gas is another reason why I think I may have damaged them.
 
  #63  
Old 04-23-2017 | 10:01 PM
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I think if you jacked up just 1 of the injectors on that side it could be flooding all of the cylinders on that bank; it doesn't necessarily have to be a fact that the injector is damaged on every cylinder that has fuel in it. I mean you could replace a whole rail assembly but more than likely it's only 1 failed injector; prob the 1 on cylinder with most fuel in it. Anyway, that's your call.

For the record, you do not have to purge the fuel rail. I just put the key in position 2 on a dry rail, let the pump run & the engine turned over the 2nd attempt. Probably could have gotten it the 1st try but I was more interested in priming the engine oil. That's another thing you want to do after a top end refresh or rebuild of any kind: pull the fuses and turn the engine over several times to load up the oil pump, filter, lifters, galleys and so forth so that you aren't cranking a dry engine. I'm even doing this after I change my oil because it takes so long to build oil pressure from nothing and it only creates more wear every time you do it.
I think you will have success replacing an injector & or fuel rail. On another note, lack of vac' leaks pre-tear down doesn't equate to zero vac' leaks post rebuild. All kinds of hoses & pipes are stressed/bent/twisted. It doesn't take much to crack a LR vac pipe that is 15 years old. NEVER dismiss the presence of vac' leaks on a D2, especially after so much as giving your engine the stinkeye.
 

Last edited by chubbs878; 04-23-2017 at 10:06 PM.
  #64  
Old 04-24-2017 | 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by chubbs878
I think if you jacked up just 1 of the injectors on that side it could be flooding all of the cylinders on that bank; it doesn't necessarily have to be a fact that the injector is damaged on every cylinder that has fuel in it. I mean you could replace a whole rail assembly but more than likely it's only 1 failed injector; prob the 1 on cylinder with most fuel in it. Anyway, that's your call.

For the record, you do not have to purge the fuel rail. I just put the key in position 2 on a dry rail, let the pump run & the engine turned over the 2nd attempt. Probably could have gotten it the 1st try but I was more interested in priming the engine oil. That's another thing you want to do after a top end refresh or rebuild of any kind: pull the fuses and turn the engine over several times to load up the oil pump, filter, lifters, galleys and so forth so that you aren't cranking a dry engine. I'm even doing this after I change my oil because it takes so long to build oil pressure from nothing and it only creates more wear every time you do it.

I think you will have success replacing an injector & or fuel rail. On another note, lack of vac' leaks pre-tear down doesn't equate to zero vac' leaks post rebuild. All kinds of hoses & pipes are stressed/bent/twisted. It doesn't take much to crack a LR vac pipe that is 15 years old. NEVER dismiss the presence of vac' leaks on a D2, especially after so much as giving your engine the stinkeye.
The more I think about it the more I leans towards an injector(s). It's the only thing that makes sense to me since it was the only thing that I altered. I picked up a used rail with injectors from a local Rover guy this morning, and I'll have it on Wednesday. All original o rings appear to be in good shape, and shouldn't need to replace them.

The issue with the fuel rail being dry was a concern due to the way we started it. It was one of those things that never crossed my mind. We just started cranking the engine right away, and never let it sit in the second position to purge. On the next attempt we'll definitely leave it in position 2 for a little bit before cranking it over.

As far as priming the engine goes we're good there. I hooked a primer up to the front cover via the pressure sensor port, and pumped 3 quarts of oil in the front. We we started it up the first time the oil light was only on for about 3 seconds. It's not going to hurt cranking the engine with all the fuses pulled just for the piece of mind.

I'm also picking up some new hoses today, and should have them by the end of the week. With those hose everything will be new , and there shouldn't be any concerns about a vacuum leak. The couple hoses that I would question will be replaced.
 
  #65  
Old 04-24-2017 | 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mstudt
The more I think about it the more I leans towards an injector(s). It's the only thing that makes sense to me since it was the only thing that I altered. I picked up a used rail with injectors from a local Rover guy this morning, and I'll have it on Wednesday. All original o rings appear to be in good shape, and shouldn't need to replace them.

The issue with the fuel rail being dry was a concern due to the way we started it. It was one of those things that never crossed my mind. We just started cranking the engine right away, and never let it sit in the second position to purge. On the next attempt we'll definitely leave it in position 2 for a little bit before cranking it over.

As far as priming the engine goes we're good there. I hooked a primer up to the front cover via the pressure sensor port, and pumped 3 quarts of oil in the front. We we started it up the first time the oil light was only on for about 3 seconds. It's not going to hurt cranking the engine with all the fuses pulled just for the piece of mind.

I'm also picking up some new hoses today, and should have them by the end of the week. With those hose everything will be new , and there shouldn't be any concerns about a vacuum leak. The couple hoses that I would question will be replaced.


you have it all under control. hopefully the fuel rail assembly does the trick and you can move on with your life. hurry up and let us know what happens
 
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  #66  
Old 04-25-2017 | 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by chubbs878
you have it all under control. hopefully the fuel rail assembly does the trick and you can move on with your life. hurry up and let us know what happens
There's nothing that needs to be done on the computer side of this right? I couldn't find any information mentioning needing to do anything to the computer.

I just want to make sure I don't have to pull the engine apart again due to something I overlooked.
 
  #67  
Old 04-25-2017 | 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mstudt
There's nothing that needs to be done on the computer side of this right? I couldn't find any information mentioning needing to do anything to the computer.

I just want to make sure I don't have to pull the engine apart again due to something I overlooked.

it should only be the straightforward fuel rail exchange. If you have an OBD reader, go ahead and clear the fault codes before turning the engine over but even that isn't absolutely necessary. You do want to start over as clean/fresh as possible. Apply lube to the O-rings so that they don't bind or distort when seating the F/I on the replacement rail. I like to use 2 gaskets on the upper-to-lower intake; I found that the face of my banana manifold isn't completely flat so 1 gasket doesn't completely seal it to the lower intake manifold.
 
  #68  
Old 04-25-2017 | 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by chubbs878
it should only be the straightforward fuel rail exchange. If you have an OBD reader, go ahead and clear the fault codes before turning the engine over but even that isn't absolutely necessary. You do want to start over as clean/fresh as possible. Apply lube to the O-rings so that they don't bind or distort when seating the F/I on the replacement rail. I like to use 2 gaskets on the upper-to-lower intake; I found that the face of my banana manifold isn't completely flat so 1 gasket doesn't completely seal it to the lower intake manifold.
We have an UltraGauge to monitor the codes, and clear them if necessary. I'll definitely oil the oil the orings before installing since it does make it a lot easier.

The gas that's in the tank is only a month old. My wife filled the tank completely a hour before the oil gear gave. That was only 89 octane, but we added octane boaster to the gas hooping to get it to 91 octane. We were going to siphon the gas out of the tank this past weekend, but learned you can't siphon gas on these. I don't really want to drop a full tank of gas, but we can if we have to.

I'll take a machinist square to the manifold surfaces to see what's going on there. If they're a little off I can double up on that gasket since I have an extra, or I'll add a little gasket maker to it. I also need to take a look at where the lower manifold meets the block. After pulling the manifold I think that gasket may have slipped a little, and we could have had a vacuum leak there. I'm going to use gasket maker in that area to ensure it stays seated, and doesn't shift on me.
 
  #69  
Old 04-25-2017 | 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mstudt
We have an UltraGauge to monitor the codes, and clear them if necessary. I'll definitely oil the oil the orings before installing since it does make it a lot easier.

The gas that's in the tank is only a month old. My wife filled the tank completely a hour before the oil gear gave. That was only 89 octane, but we added octane boaster to the gas hooping to get it to 91 octane. We were going to siphon the gas out of the tank this past weekend, but learned you can't siphon gas on these. I don't really want to drop a full tank of gas, but we can if we have to.

I'll take a machinist square to the manifold surfaces to see what's going on there. If they're a little off I can double up on that gasket since I have an extra, or I'll add a little gasket maker to it. I also need to take a look at where the lower manifold meets the block. After pulling the manifold I think that gasket may have slipped a little, and we could have had a vacuum leak there. I'm going to use gasket maker in that area to ensure it stays seated, and doesn't shift on me.

mmmhmm, the valley pan gaskets are a little sketchy. the only suggestion I have is to skip the gasket maker/ RTV. Copper spray works good on gasket surfaces where you need extra insurance or tapped for water passage, especially. the only place you need RTV sealant on the lower pan gasket is on the ends of the block where it is notched and fitted with the rubber seal below the clamps. The RTV falls off inside the engine and blocks water passages and the oil pickup: this has been documented on this website. copper gasket spray where you need it, bolts torqued to spec, water outlet and injector Orings greased... you should be good. just beware the RTV; on my top end rebuild I used 4 dabs of RTV in the valley notches and I was good. I just doubled that 1 gasket since I kept my old 1 so try that
 

Last edited by chubbs878; 04-25-2017 at 11:40 AM.
  #70  
Old 04-25-2017 | 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by chubbs878
mmmhmm, the valley pan gaskets are a little sketchy. the only suggestion I have is to skip the gasket maker/ RTV. Copper spray works good on gasket surfaces where you need extra insurance or tapped for water passage, especially. the only place you need RTV sealant on the lower pan gasket is on the ends of the block where it is notched and fitted with the rubber seal below the clamps. The RTV falls off inside the engine and blocks water passages and the oil pickup: this has been documented on this website. copper gasket spray where you need it, bolts torqued to spec, water outlet and injector Orings greased... you should be good. just beware the RTV
I'll hold off on the RTV then, and stick with using Copper Spray. I think that was the only gasket I didn't use Copper Spray on. I'm also going to assume that I only need to spray around the passages, and not the entire gasket correct?
 


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