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Head Gaskets And..?? Where to Stop?

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  #1  
Old 09-13-2014 | 12:38 PM
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Default Head Gaskets And..?? Where to Stop?

So much for my hopes for a head gasket failure free Rover experience. I had been losing maybe 1/4 inch every 2 weeks but now that has jumped to 3/4 inch per week and I can see some signs of coolant at the back of the passenger side head. So it's time.

A little history on the truck. It has 120k on the clock now, but at about 68k the shortblock was replaced due to out-of-round cylinders. A misfire led to the heads being pulled and the cylinder issue was discovered. The work was done by a previous owner but I was told that the heads were sent out for machining and then reused.

The engine runs great and the oil pressure seems decent, but since it only got a short block the oil pump is probably original. Looks like the water pump is leaking a little at the gasket too. So I'm going to do the heads, plug wires, plugs, swap my motorad 180 for a genuine 180, and probably check the valve clearances. Should I do the oil pump too or should I just leave it for another time? Any other things to replace at the same time?
 
  #2  
Old 09-13-2014 | 12:52 PM
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A simple pressure test will tell if you have a tired oil pump...decide from there. Make sure you get the water pump w/the brass impellor. Also, how old is your radiator? Check temps at the inlet and outlet areas of the radiator. There should be greator than 10 degree difference or you need a new radiator and. With the fan out it's a good time. Also may want to consider a new fan clutch if yours is more than 60K mi old.
 
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Old 09-13-2014 | 01:27 PM
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If you just fix what you've got, I'd recommend a set of Ford Mustang injectors. They'll give better throttle response. Also check to make sure your lifters aren't too worn. I'm having to replace mine because they were starting to click and I went ahead and did a high torque cam while I was at it, though if you do a cam you're going to add a decent amount of labor. Just decide once you get your top end apart so you can see if the lobes are starting to round off. I'd guess not.

A valve job is always a good idea while the heads are off and just a general de-gunking. A port and polish will also help air flow and power consoderably, though it might cost you a little.

So all in all, just clean up and check everything out and throw in the mustang injectors. Everything else is really just up to you and your budget.
 
  #4  
Old 09-13-2014 | 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex_M
If you just fix what you've got, I'd recommend a set of Ford Mustang injectors. They'll give better throttle response. Also check to make sure your lifters aren't too worn. I'm having to replace mine because they were starting to click and I went ahead and did a high torque cam while I was at it, though if you do a cam you're going to add a decent amount of labor. Just decide once you get your top end apart so you can see if the lobes are starting to round off. I'd guess not.

A valve job is always a good idea while the heads are off and just a general de-gunking. A port and polish will also help air flow and power consoderably, though it might cost you a little.

So all in all, just clean up and check everything out and throw in the mustang injectors. Everything else is really just up to you and your budget.




which year / engine model for the mustang injectors?
 
  #5  
Old 09-13-2014 | 06:47 PM
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I have a gauge installed for the oil pressure and it shows around 20 psi at idle and 40 at 2,000 rpm's when hot. That's decent but the pump likely has 120k on it so I'm tempted to do it while I have the water pump out. The radiator, fan clutch (and fan because it's an '04), idlers and tensioner all are about 1 year old. I also did all the cooling hoses at the same time. The cam and lifters have 50,000 miles on them supposedly, so they should be fins but I'll check while I'm at it. I know that the truck has been run on synthetic oil since the engine was replaced, with Rotella in it for the last 40k while I've owned it.


Regarding the injectors, I'm more than happy with how this thing runs. I may run some cleaner through them while they're out using my pump sprayer injector cleaner setup but I don't have any starting, idle or acceleration issues with it and I'm not changing the induction or exhaust so I'm not sure going to higher flow injectors will help me.
 
  #6  
Old 09-13-2014 | 08:16 PM
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Not knowing what parts they replaced it would be a close call.

I just tore into 3.

The first was an 03 4.6 with 140k+ miles and the oil pump outer ring was cracked in two places and the timing chain had lots of slack so, I replaced both timing gears, chain, and oil pump .

The next is an 00 4.0 from a RR with reportedly 70K+ miles and timing chain had been replaced or at least it looked to have been, had non genuine gears, and timing chain didn't have any more slack than the new one I put on the 03 so, the timing set was good and the oil pump didn't have any cracks. I haven't measured oil pump for wear per rave yet. I will probably replace the oil pump anyway when building back just to be safe.

The last is an 03 4.6 with 120k and the timing chain has slack and the gears show some wear when looked at closely with a magnifying glass. The oil pump is not cracked and I have not measured for wear on it yet either. I will replace the timing set and probably the oil pump as well, since I'm in there.

If it were me while I had it down that far I would check the timing set and if it hasn't been replaced it will probably need it at 120k if they didn't do it already (chain at least), and if in that far with the front cover off I would change the oil pump gears.

That's just me, I'm sure some would and some wouldn't. No way I could resist at least looking at the oil pump and timing set.

The old saying is if it ain't broke don't fix it but with these things if it ain't broke just means it ain't broke yet.

New good quality front gasket, oil pan gasket and corteco front seal $35-$45,

and if you need a new oil pump $100, new timing set aftermarket $50-$60 or genuine $75-$85 or so.

New front cover $450-$500 + whatever it destroys if it grenades...it may never but, if you have the extra cash for pump and timing set, I would check the stuff at least.... easier to get to while you're in there plus you won't be wondering, you'll know.

jmo
 

Last edited by RicketyTick; 09-13-2014 at 08:31 PM.
  #7  
Old 09-13-2014 | 09:40 PM
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What about '03's that fall in the oil pump failure service bulletin vin range? Still ok to replace the oil pump or better off leaving well enough alone?
 
  #8  
Old 09-13-2014 | 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kenso
What about '03's that fall in the oil pump failure service bulletin vin range? Still ok to replace the oil pump or better off leaving well enough alone?
kenso, You can't always go by the VIN.

On the ones I have just opened up:

The 03 that had the cracked oil pump is not in the death VIN range.

and the 03 that did not have a cracked oil pump is in the death VIN range.

They say that most of those that failed from the factory, failed early on and were replaced with a new engine.
If that is the case and it has alot of miles since then it is ok to change it.

I've read that some that failed under warranty the repair, when they were running low on replacement engines, was to remove the front cover, remove the pins and then affix a new cover aligning visually. Not sure if that's true.

I also read somewhere that some jacklegs would just grind off the dowel pins and align a new front cover visually and if that is true then it would be hard to get back just right. Neither of these had the dowels missing but, I have heard of that happening on some. Don't know if it's true.

as far as if you should change it or if it needs changing, don't know. If it's got high miles and never been changed it could be good for a long time and could go tomorrow.... russian roulette.
 

Last edited by RicketyTick; 09-14-2014 at 12:48 AM.
  #9  
Old 09-13-2014 | 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MetalMarine
which year / engine model for the mustang injectors?
I don't know exactly, the part number was Ford 0280150561. They're going to sit up a little higher than stock, but my mechanic man says it shouldn't cause any problems. I'll report back in a few days when I get my truck back.
 
  #10  
Old 09-13-2014 | 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 04duxlr
I have a gauge installed for the oil pressure and it shows around 20 psi at idle and 40 at 2,000 rpm's when hot. That's decent but the pump likely has 120k on it so I'm tempted to do it while I have the water pump out. The radiator, fan clutch (and fan because it's an '04), idlers and tensioner all are about 1 year old. I also did all the cooling hoses at the same time. The cam and lifters have 50,000 miles on them supposedly, so they should be fins but I'll check while I'm at it. I know that the truck has been run on synthetic oil since the engine was replaced, with Rotella in it for the last 40k while I've owned it.


Regarding the injectors, I'm more than happy with how this thing runs. I may run some cleaner through them while they're out using my pump sprayer injector cleaner setup but I don't have any starting, idle or acceleration issues with it and I'm not changing the induction or exhaust so I'm not sure going to higher flow injectors will help me.
Whatever you think. It's not really that they flow more, its that the design of the injector makes the gas disperse and ignite better. (it's a 4 hole design as opposed to the bosch 1 hole.) Other people have done this and no other changes and have gained a decent amount of low end.
 



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