lost control on snow/ ice
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Mudding
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Redondo Beach, CA.
lost control on snow/ ice
Crashed my beautiful never before dented '04 while driving up to Mt. Baldy in southern CA. This is the second time I've done this!- first was with my '99 D2.
The road to Mt. Baldy ski area is notoriously bad- steep, lots of switchbacks, and rather poorly maintained. Unlike the main roads to larger local ski areas like Bear Mtn. in Big Bear, the Baldy roads apparently don't have the crews to keep the road clear during heavy storms.
So last Monday, up I go after a good storm, confident in the '04's ability to handle it, especially with the diff lock and with chains if needed. Up I go around 8am- storm was subsiding, just a light snowfall now with no wind, cold as $#^& outside but feeling good, the LR navigating well the foot or so of fresh on the road. At the lower elevations, the snow was pretty heavy- wet and slushy. Having lived in northern Idaho for about 5 years, I knew that was a good sign- underlying ice unlikely when you see slush. So considering the conditions, I opted not to go with the chains. Sure I slid a little here and there as I made the tighter and steeper sections, but all seemed well. To this point I remained in 4H w/ out engaging the diff lock, trusting in the AWD TC capability of the LR.
Now I was getting close to the top of the mountain. The snow was looking less slushy and the road was getting steeper. So I opted for 4L, but still hadnt engaged diff lock. I kept speed at 30 mph or below.
Last hill before making the ski area parking lot. Four years prior, this is the area where maybe 15 or more cars had crashed (including me!) as they travelled downhill leaving the mountain during a heavy storm. Notoriously steep and whatever else (shady, bad grading?) this section gets many. And once again it claimed me, this time heading uphill. I made it maybe 1/2 way up, going maybe 25mph or so, when I started to feel my wheels slipping. Soon it was obvious that I wouldnt make it- and now the fun part started- sliding backwards.
Two of my three passengers said "see ya!" and jumped ship (either smart or jerks!). The front passenger stayed with me as I slid backwards, gaining momentum fast on an ice-slick hill. With little time to spare and a long steep open hill below me- with scary looking big pines to crash into at 50mph+ in the distance, I decided to coax her into another Dodge truck that was plowed into a snowbank off to the side, in an attempt to slow down lest I and my passenger be seriously hurt or killed if we continued to spin out of control down an icy hill. I successfully hit the Dodge with the corner of my rear bumper, and my plan worked as it cut my speed an spun me back around, allowing me to angle front first into the same snowbank just below the Dodge. Damage now is a blown-out bumper, caved quarter panel, and bent rear door hinges.
I cant help but think of a few things-
1. should I have engaged diff lock?
2. should I have been in 4H, maybe w/ diff lock, and had much more speed (40mph+) to make the hill?
3. Should I have had those dang chains on?
4. Were my all-season Michelins w/ maybe 30% tread left good enough?
5. Immediately upon feeling the loss of traction, should I have maneuvered to the right side shoulder, angling into the snowbank, and once there turning the wheel slightly right to get the rear end to wedge into the bank as I began to slide backwards, hopefully getting the truck to stick?
Now after my crash, I had the joy (and horror) of watching many other people do the exact same thing! Now the experienced locals would all make a b-line for it, revving up to 50mph before hitting the hill and allowing that momentum to carry them up. Everyone else, chains or no chains, was doing the same thing as me and crashing. One experienced guy tried what I described in #5- he angled into the right-side snowbank while sliding backwards but was unable to stick it due to too much speed, and instead it bounced him out, spinning him around 180 degrees to facing downhill again. He would have kept sliding past 180 deg. in an uncontrolled spin but wisely hit the gas slightly which allowed his truck to straighten out. he then tapped the brakes on and off to control speed and ended up pulling it off- he had scary downhill speed but he did it!
Somewhat funny- after only 15 minutes of watching this crash derby, along comes the snowplow with a gang of cars following behind him at 10mph or so. this is the same snowplow I passed in my zealous confidence in both the LR and my driving ability. Why I hadn't just stayed behind it!!
Later a local told me my timing was pretty bad- If I was up maybe 1/2 an hr earlier, I would have been one of the first cars to the parking lot and the snow would have been less packed down, ie., more fluffy snow traction and less compacted ICE. And of course if I would have just had patience and stayed an xtra 15 minutes behind that dang snowplow!!!!
Sorry for the long story, I needed this one off my chest. Whatdayall think?
The road to Mt. Baldy ski area is notoriously bad- steep, lots of switchbacks, and rather poorly maintained. Unlike the main roads to larger local ski areas like Bear Mtn. in Big Bear, the Baldy roads apparently don't have the crews to keep the road clear during heavy storms.
So last Monday, up I go after a good storm, confident in the '04's ability to handle it, especially with the diff lock and with chains if needed. Up I go around 8am- storm was subsiding, just a light snowfall now with no wind, cold as $#^& outside but feeling good, the LR navigating well the foot or so of fresh on the road. At the lower elevations, the snow was pretty heavy- wet and slushy. Having lived in northern Idaho for about 5 years, I knew that was a good sign- underlying ice unlikely when you see slush. So considering the conditions, I opted not to go with the chains. Sure I slid a little here and there as I made the tighter and steeper sections, but all seemed well. To this point I remained in 4H w/ out engaging the diff lock, trusting in the AWD TC capability of the LR.
Now I was getting close to the top of the mountain. The snow was looking less slushy and the road was getting steeper. So I opted for 4L, but still hadnt engaged diff lock. I kept speed at 30 mph or below.
Last hill before making the ski area parking lot. Four years prior, this is the area where maybe 15 or more cars had crashed (including me!) as they travelled downhill leaving the mountain during a heavy storm. Notoriously steep and whatever else (shady, bad grading?) this section gets many. And once again it claimed me, this time heading uphill. I made it maybe 1/2 way up, going maybe 25mph or so, when I started to feel my wheels slipping. Soon it was obvious that I wouldnt make it- and now the fun part started- sliding backwards.
Two of my three passengers said "see ya!" and jumped ship (either smart or jerks!). The front passenger stayed with me as I slid backwards, gaining momentum fast on an ice-slick hill. With little time to spare and a long steep open hill below me- with scary looking big pines to crash into at 50mph+ in the distance, I decided to coax her into another Dodge truck that was plowed into a snowbank off to the side, in an attempt to slow down lest I and my passenger be seriously hurt or killed if we continued to spin out of control down an icy hill. I successfully hit the Dodge with the corner of my rear bumper, and my plan worked as it cut my speed an spun me back around, allowing me to angle front first into the same snowbank just below the Dodge. Damage now is a blown-out bumper, caved quarter panel, and bent rear door hinges.
I cant help but think of a few things-
1. should I have engaged diff lock?
2. should I have been in 4H, maybe w/ diff lock, and had much more speed (40mph+) to make the hill?
3. Should I have had those dang chains on?
4. Were my all-season Michelins w/ maybe 30% tread left good enough?
5. Immediately upon feeling the loss of traction, should I have maneuvered to the right side shoulder, angling into the snowbank, and once there turning the wheel slightly right to get the rear end to wedge into the bank as I began to slide backwards, hopefully getting the truck to stick?
Now after my crash, I had the joy (and horror) of watching many other people do the exact same thing! Now the experienced locals would all make a b-line for it, revving up to 50mph before hitting the hill and allowing that momentum to carry them up. Everyone else, chains or no chains, was doing the same thing as me and crashing. One experienced guy tried what I described in #5- he angled into the right-side snowbank while sliding backwards but was unable to stick it due to too much speed, and instead it bounced him out, spinning him around 180 degrees to facing downhill again. He would have kept sliding past 180 deg. in an uncontrolled spin but wisely hit the gas slightly which allowed his truck to straighten out. he then tapped the brakes on and off to control speed and ended up pulling it off- he had scary downhill speed but he did it!
Somewhat funny- after only 15 minutes of watching this crash derby, along comes the snowplow with a gang of cars following behind him at 10mph or so. this is the same snowplow I passed in my zealous confidence in both the LR and my driving ability. Why I hadn't just stayed behind it!!
Later a local told me my timing was pretty bad- If I was up maybe 1/2 an hr earlier, I would have been one of the first cars to the parking lot and the snow would have been less packed down, ie., more fluffy snow traction and less compacted ICE. And of course if I would have just had patience and stayed an xtra 15 minutes behind that dang snowplow!!!!
Sorry for the long story, I needed this one off my chest. Whatdayall think?
Overlanding
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
The road to Mt. Baldy ski area is notoriously bad- steep, lots of switchbacks, and rather poorly maintained. Unlike the main roads to larger local ski areas like Bear Mtn. in Big Bear, the Baldy roads apparently don't have the crews to keep the road clear during heavy storms.
sucks that you ended up with some damage , but good thing nobody was hurt.
I guess you didnt get to ride / ski?
Besides their really bad parking lot and getting through the sled rider traffic right before you get to the lot, Mt Baldy might be my fav socal resort.
ive got an 04 D2 now, and its in the shop for a valve job... ugh all around.
Yeah always engage that diff lock if there is any chance for sporadic wheel spin.
Glad you made it out safe though, could have been a lot worse. I couldn't imagine sliding that fast down a hill....
Glad you made it out safe though, could have been a lot worse. I couldn't imagine sliding that fast down a hill....
It is NOT AWD!!! AWD does not have a hi-lo or lockable transfer case.
It was the tires.
You cannot drive in deep snow with less than 50% tread left, unless you are on your way to the tire store that is.
Had you taken your foot off the brake and hit the gas you may have regained control, even though you were slidding backwards by trying to go forward you can stop sliding or at least control the skid.
Another tip, if you are driving forward and cant stop shift into neutral and remove the power from the wheels.
If you are driving backwards and cant stop shift into neutral to remove the power from the wheels.
By removing the power from the wheels you have less to overcome with the brakes, you only have to overcome your momentum.
Glad no one was hurt.
It was the tires.
You cannot drive in deep snow with less than 50% tread left, unless you are on your way to the tire store that is.
Had you taken your foot off the brake and hit the gas you may have regained control, even though you were slidding backwards by trying to go forward you can stop sliding or at least control the skid.
Another tip, if you are driving forward and cant stop shift into neutral and remove the power from the wheels.
If you are driving backwards and cant stop shift into neutral to remove the power from the wheels.
By removing the power from the wheels you have less to overcome with the brakes, you only have to overcome your momentum.
Glad no one was hurt.
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,074
Likes: 2
From: CDA, ID
I agree mostly with Spike, giving it some gas probably would have slowed your momentum going backwards and possibly have regained some control. I do not shift into neutral if I am on ice since I lose braking from the engine. If you lived in N. Idaho like I do then you should know the tire are your best friends. 30% will not get you anything on ice and even then studded snow tires are the way to go. Of course this is not really required in CA but they are made for a reason.
In cases here when we have a lot of people CA move here you can spot them because they slam on the brakes and start sliding out of control. If you let off the brakes and let the engine and drive train regain movement then they quickly stop and find they can steer again too.
Main culprit - tires.
Additional items - panicked.
Glad you are okay, but this is why we have insurance right?
In cases here when we have a lot of people CA move here you can spot them because they slam on the brakes and start sliding out of control. If you let off the brakes and let the engine and drive train regain movement then they quickly stop and find they can steer again too.
Main culprit - tires.
Additional items - panicked.
Glad you are okay, but this is why we have insurance right?
