Manafoild Gaskit/Valley pan Blown out ??????
#1
08-16-2015, 12:01 PM
Manafoild Gaskit/Valley pan Blown out ??????
Good day, I have a strange issue. My manifold gasket is blown up and tore the two rubber gaskets on the lip the block, front and rear. Plus where its bolted down on the rear and front, the manifold gasket bolts holes are completely stretched as a result. One bolt hole is torn open. All the bolt holes that go through the gasket on the heads are fine. See pictures. I know I stalled this correct, it was new and flat when it put it on.
I have not checked oil pressure, because the damn pos harbor freight hose is two hard to screw in. I attempted to locate a better product to purchase but none where found at the time. I will install one now that I took the manifold off.
So what "IF" I had oil Pressure? I know that's crazy, but what else could be causing crank case pressure ? piston rings are out, they were carefully cleaned and re-alined in the correct position; two of us both checked them each as there were put in. Didnt want to mess that up.... and do it again. I did install a 2ND oil separator in the rocker cover: drivers or LH side. ops..... My 97 had two, maybe i should not have done that ? When I removed it, it was submerged in oil..... but the other side was check and I could blow in it fine.
I just seemed like there was alot of oil in that line before the overhaul, that's why I added one. I removed it, but do not want to just hope that was the issue and have the Manifold gasket to blow out again. Should I just leave the oil cap loss ??? LOL
I am just not sure what to check or what the root of the issue could be or I'd go looking for it. Suggestion ?
History:
The engine was over hauled a week or two back; July 2015. New crank and rod bearings. Complete gasket and seal kit for the overhaul, from the top to bottom of the engine, every thing. All Parts from Atlantic British. Trimming chain & gears, Water Pump, CPS, head studs and gasket, oil pump gears, plus others. All parts, hoses, and block was cleaned and checked. Followed two rave manuals on the rebuild.
I have not checked oil pressure, because the damn pos harbor freight hose is two hard to screw in. I attempted to locate a better product to purchase but none where found at the time. I will install one now that I took the manifold off.
So what "IF" I had oil Pressure? I know that's crazy, but what else could be causing crank case pressure ? piston rings are out, they were carefully cleaned and re-alined in the correct position; two of us both checked them each as there were put in. Didnt want to mess that up.... and do it again. I did install a 2ND oil separator in the rocker cover: drivers or LH side. ops..... My 97 had two, maybe i should not have done that ? When I removed it, it was submerged in oil..... but the other side was check and I could blow in it fine.
I just seemed like there was alot of oil in that line before the overhaul, that's why I added one. I removed it, but do not want to just hope that was the issue and have the Manifold gasket to blow out again. Should I just leave the oil cap loss ??? LOL
I am just not sure what to check or what the root of the issue could be or I'd go looking for it. Suggestion ?
History:
The engine was over hauled a week or two back; July 2015. New crank and rod bearings. Complete gasket and seal kit for the overhaul, from the top to bottom of the engine, every thing. All Parts from Atlantic British. Trimming chain & gears, Water Pump, CPS, head studs and gasket, oil pump gears, plus others. All parts, hoses, and block was cleaned and checked. Followed two rave manuals on the rebuild.
#2
08-16-2015, 12:25 PM
Wow! I can't answer the question because I've never seen that problem and lack the background. But I'd like to know what makes that happen so, subscribing with this post.
VERY uneducated guess: piston rings on a cylinder became dislodged and pressure from combustion is going past the cylinder to the bottom of the engine.
VERY uneducated guess: piston rings on a cylinder became dislodged and pressure from combustion is going past the cylinder to the bottom of the engine.
#3
08-16-2015, 01:04 PM
Wow! I can't answer the question because I've never seen that problem and lack the background. But I'd like to know what makes that happen so, subscribing with this post.
VERY uneducated guess: piston rings on a cylinder became dislodged and pressure from combustion is going past the cylinder to the bottom of the engine.
VERY uneducated guess: piston rings on a cylinder became dislodged and pressure from combustion is going past the cylinder to the bottom of the engine.
#4
08-16-2015, 01:16 PM
Well I said it was an uneducated guess... haha... I'll be watching for the fix.
#5
08-16-2015, 11:44 PM
-I remember reading about this same issue a while back. The other person said he could hear a sound like a can being crushed and expanded while the motor was running.
-I believe the problem was caused by user error... Piston was installed incorrectly causing crank case pressure.
-You can read up on it here: https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...n-sound-65926/
-I believe the problem was caused by user error... Piston was installed incorrectly causing crank case pressure.
-You can read up on it here: https://landroverforums.com/forum/di...n-sound-65926/
Last edited by R0VERGUY; 08-17-2015 at 11:50 AM.
#6
08-17-2015, 01:40 AM
Sounds like you have vacuum sucking out the top of one of the valve covers.
Which it should. This provides crank case ventilation.
OK well think about this.
If you had a vacuum on your crankcase and no way for air to get in
then your valley gasket would suck down toward the inside of the engine.
Well it sounds like you did a really good job putting the valve cover gaskets on and the valley gasket on as it held a vacuum and sucked the valley gasket in.
On the top of one of the valve covers is the inlet for the air. It goes thru a little filter on the inside top of the valve cover. Hopefully that is not plugged.
Probably is.
Or the hose going onto that is the wrong hose. I forget where that hose goes.
I know one of the hoses pulls vicious vacuum from the engine plenum into the valve cover. That is probably the vacuum pulling the valley gasket in.
Yep. you gotta fix that air inlet.
You probably could drill a hole in the top of the oil cap and put a hose into that and put the hose into a filtered box or such to let the rover just suck clean air into the crank case.
Look here at this
http://www.roverparts.com/Parts_Cata.../DIS9_Full.pdf
PCV tune up kit.
OK I think I figured it out.
Those hoses on the side that sucks air in from the outside - the hose gets old and the sides just collapse in on the vacuum and the hose becomes like it is plugged when the engine is running. And yet when the engine is off
the hose returns to it's shape.
Yep, betting that is it.
Replace those specialized wide hoses.
Which it should. This provides crank case ventilation.
OK well think about this.
If you had a vacuum on your crankcase and no way for air to get in
then your valley gasket would suck down toward the inside of the engine.
Well it sounds like you did a really good job putting the valve cover gaskets on and the valley gasket on as it held a vacuum and sucked the valley gasket in.
On the top of one of the valve covers is the inlet for the air. It goes thru a little filter on the inside top of the valve cover. Hopefully that is not plugged.
Probably is.
Or the hose going onto that is the wrong hose. I forget where that hose goes.
I know one of the hoses pulls vicious vacuum from the engine plenum into the valve cover. That is probably the vacuum pulling the valley gasket in.
Yep. you gotta fix that air inlet.
You probably could drill a hole in the top of the oil cap and put a hose into that and put the hose into a filtered box or such to let the rover just suck clean air into the crank case.
Look here at this
http://www.roverparts.com/Parts_Cata.../DIS9_Full.pdf
PCV tune up kit.
OK I think I figured it out.
Those hoses on the side that sucks air in from the outside - the hose gets old and the sides just collapse in on the vacuum and the hose becomes like it is plugged when the engine is running. And yet when the engine is off
the hose returns to it's shape.
Yep, betting that is it.
Replace those specialized wide hoses.
#8
08-17-2015, 08:17 AM
Sounds like you have vacuum sucking out the top of one of the valve covers.
Which it should. This provides crank case ventilation.
OK well think about this.
If you had a vacuum on your crankcase and no way for air to get in
then your valley gasket would suck down toward the inside of the engine.
Well it sounds like you did a really good job putting the valve cover gaskets on and the valley gasket on as it held a vacuum and sucked the valley gasket in.
On the top of one of the valve covers is the inlet for the air. It goes thru a little filter on the inside top of the valve cover. Hopefully that is not plugged.
Probably is.
Or the hose going onto that is the wrong hose. I forget where that hose goes.
I know one of the hoses pulls vicious vacuum from the engine plenum into the valve cover. That is probably the vacuum pulling the valley gasket in.
Yep. you gotta fix that air inlet.
You probably could drill a hole in the top of the oil cap and put a hose into that and put the hose into a filtered box or such to let the rover just suck clean air into the crank case.
Look here at this
http://www.roverparts.com/Parts_Cata.../DIS9_Full.pdf
PCV tune up kit.
OK I think I figured it out.
Those hoses on the side that sucks air in from the outside - the hose gets old and the sides just collapse in on the vacuum and the hose becomes like it is plugged when the engine is running. And yet when the engine is off
the hose returns to it's shape.
Yep, betting that is it.
Replace those specialized wide hoses.
Which it should. This provides crank case ventilation.
OK well think about this.
If you had a vacuum on your crankcase and no way for air to get in
then your valley gasket would suck down toward the inside of the engine.
Well it sounds like you did a really good job putting the valve cover gaskets on and the valley gasket on as it held a vacuum and sucked the valley gasket in.
On the top of one of the valve covers is the inlet for the air. It goes thru a little filter on the inside top of the valve cover. Hopefully that is not plugged.
Probably is.
Or the hose going onto that is the wrong hose. I forget where that hose goes.
I know one of the hoses pulls vicious vacuum from the engine plenum into the valve cover. That is probably the vacuum pulling the valley gasket in.
Yep. you gotta fix that air inlet.
You probably could drill a hole in the top of the oil cap and put a hose into that and put the hose into a filtered box or such to let the rover just suck clean air into the crank case.
Look here at this
http://www.roverparts.com/Parts_Cata.../DIS9_Full.pdf
PCV tune up kit.
OK I think I figured it out.
Those hoses on the side that sucks air in from the outside - the hose gets old and the sides just collapse in on the vacuum and the hose becomes like it is plugged when the engine is running. And yet when the engine is off
the hose returns to it's shape.
Yep, betting that is it.
Replace those specialized wide hoses.
#9
08-17-2015, 09:02 AM
Haha Hope I am right. Wound be an easy fix.
I looked up the link and found the old problem:
I know it's been awhile but I figure late is better than never. So the diagnoses was blow-by. I inadvertently installed the #8 piston/rod 180deg out. Thus causing the to cap oil squirter to squirt elsewhere. It ruined the sleeve and rings only. My big bad and probably got distracted. Soo.. The tin can popping sound was literally the tin valley pan popping up and down.
Yep, I could see blow by expanding the gasket too..
-------
Well here is an idea.
Get a piece of printer paper.
Put oil on the paper.
Put the paper on the oil cap opening - take the oil filler cap off.
If the paper sucks in - vacuum problem.
If the paper blows off - and you need to hold the paper on - and the paper flaps - then blow by.
The blow by probably is like this--
Compression stroke - and there is blow by. So some of the compression
goes into the crank case as pressure and then needs to get out and
deforms the valley gasket.
Ouch that means the rings are really worn down to nothing now.
Guy said putting the piston in backwards causes the oil to not hit the cylinder wall and wears the rings out.
So it depends if the pressure is positive - outward - piece of oiled paper will flap..
Or inward vacuum - paper will suck in.
I looked up the link and found the old problem:
I know it's been awhile but I figure late is better than never. So the diagnoses was blow-by. I inadvertently installed the #8 piston/rod 180deg out. Thus causing the to cap oil squirter to squirt elsewhere. It ruined the sleeve and rings only. My big bad and probably got distracted. Soo.. The tin can popping sound was literally the tin valley pan popping up and down.
Yep, I could see blow by expanding the gasket too..
-------
Well here is an idea.
Get a piece of printer paper.
Put oil on the paper.
Put the paper on the oil cap opening - take the oil filler cap off.
If the paper sucks in - vacuum problem.
If the paper blows off - and you need to hold the paper on - and the paper flaps - then blow by.
The blow by probably is like this--
Compression stroke - and there is blow by. So some of the compression
goes into the crank case as pressure and then needs to get out and
deforms the valley gasket.
Ouch that means the rings are really worn down to nothing now.
Guy said putting the piston in backwards causes the oil to not hit the cylinder wall and wears the rings out.
So it depends if the pressure is positive - outward - piece of oiled paper will flap..
Or inward vacuum - paper will suck in.
#10
08-17-2015, 09:05 AM
Haha Hope I am right. Wound be an easy fix.
I looked up the link and found the old problem:
I know it's been awhile but I figure late is better than never. So the diagnoses was blow-by. I inadvertently installed the #8 piston/rod 180deg out. Thus causing the to cap oil squirter to squirt elsewhere. It ruined the sleeve and rings only. My big bad and probably got distracted. Soo.. The tin can popping sound was literally the tin valley pan popping up and down.
Yep, I could see blow by expanding the gasket too..
-------
Well here is an idea.
Get a piece of printer paper.
Put oil on the paper.
Put the paper on the oil cap opening - take the oil filler cap off.
If the paper sucks in - vacuum problem.
If the paper blows off - and you need to hold the paper on - and the paper flaps - then blow by.
The blow by probably is like this--
Compression stroke - and there is blow by. So some of the compression
goes into the crank case as pressure and then needs to get out and
deforms the valley gasket.
Ouch that means the rings are really worn down to nothing now.
Guy said putting the piston in backwards causes the oil to not hit the cylinder wall and wears the rings out.
So it depends if the pressure is positive - outward - piece of oiled paper will flap..
Or inward vacuum - paper will suck in.
I looked up the link and found the old problem:
I know it's been awhile but I figure late is better than never. So the diagnoses was blow-by. I inadvertently installed the #8 piston/rod 180deg out. Thus causing the to cap oil squirter to squirt elsewhere. It ruined the sleeve and rings only. My big bad and probably got distracted. Soo.. The tin can popping sound was literally the tin valley pan popping up and down.
Yep, I could see blow by expanding the gasket too..
-------
Well here is an idea.
Get a piece of printer paper.
Put oil on the paper.
Put the paper on the oil cap opening - take the oil filler cap off.
If the paper sucks in - vacuum problem.
If the paper blows off - and you need to hold the paper on - and the paper flaps - then blow by.
The blow by probably is like this--
Compression stroke - and there is blow by. So some of the compression
goes into the crank case as pressure and then needs to get out and
deforms the valley gasket.
Ouch that means the rings are really worn down to nothing now.
Guy said putting the piston in backwards causes the oil to not hit the cylinder wall and wears the rings out.
So it depends if the pressure is positive - outward - piece of oiled paper will flap..
Or inward vacuum - paper will suck in.