Discovery II Talk about the Land Rover Discovery II within.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Rough idling in a V8 D2a — changed MAF, O2, no luck

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 3, 2024 | 05:53 AM
  #1  
MAF Diver's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Three Wheeling
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 64
Likes: 6
Red face Rough idling in a V8 D2a — changed MAF, O2, no luck

I hope someone can help!

My D2a V8 has a rough idling issue which I can't seem to fix. It also throws up a lot of O2 diagnostic trouble codes. Car has around 120,000 km on it.


Confirmed:
  • P0130 - O2 sensor circuit malfunction (bank 1, sensor 1) - Front sensor LH bank stoichiometric ratio outside operating band
  • P0150 - O2 sensor circuit malfunction (bank 2, sensor 1) - Front sensor RH bank stoichiometric ratio outside operating band
  • P0171 - System too lean (bank 1) - Multiplication injector adaptive fuelling - lean limit exceeded LH bank
  • P0174 - System too lean (bank 2) - Multiplication injector adaptive fuelling - lean limit exceeded RH bank
  • P1171 - System too lean (bank 1) - Additive injector adaptive fuelling - lean limit exceeded LH bank
  • P1174 - System too lean (bank 2) - Additive injector adaptive fuelling - lean limit exceeded RH bank
  • P0102 - Mass or volume air flow low input - MAF signal < minimum threshold, which is speed dependent
Here's what I've tried in order:
  1. Run 98 fuel, sometimes E10 and 95
  2. I changed spark plugs (8x NGK)
  3. I tried 3x different MAFs (2x brand new Bosch, 1x from a wreck)
  4. I changed air filter, and air filter top lid (clamp was broken)
  5. Mechanic changed spark plug leads (aftermarket, grey ones)
  6. I changed O2 sensors (2x new Bosch)
  7. Cleaned the injectors with fuel additive
  8. Cleaned idle position sensor's insides with carby spray
What do you suggest that I try next?

Unrelated work done:
  • Mechanic: changed rocker cover gaskets (big leak before), thermostat, water pump, coolant flush, throttle body base (big coolant leak).
  • Mechanic visually inspected at vacuum hoses, doesn't see any damage or cracks.
Stats I'm getting via OBD2:

0km/h (idle, coolant 26-40C)
980-872 RPM
40-20 kg/h MAF
O2 Bank 1: 0.45-0.54V, 7-19% trim
O2 Bank 2: 0.37-0.75V, 2-11% trim

0km/h (idle, coolant 81-87C)
614-703 RPM
10-16 kg/h MAF
O2 Bank 1: 0.03-0.06V, 25% trim
O2 Bank 2: 0.01-0.06V, 0-25% trim

11km/h (87C)
1639 RPM
108 kg/h MAF
Bank 1: 0.89V 17% trim
Bank 2: 0.74V -6% trim

53km/h (87C)
1286 RPM
29 kg/h MAF
Bank 1: 0.04V 15% trim
Bank 2: 0.04V 17% trim

48km/h (87C)
1684 RPM
91 kg/h MAF
Bank 1: 0.39V 2% trim
Bank 2: 0.53V -3% trim

(Trim and MAF numbers have been rounded.)
 

Last edited by MAF Diver; Jun 24, 2024 at 09:15 AM.
Reply
Old Jun 3, 2024 | 07:08 AM
  #2  
RoverMasterTech's Avatar
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 811
Likes: 78
From: Howell, NJ
Default

Monster vacuum leak.
 
Reply
Old Jun 3, 2024 | 07:23 AM
  #3  
mln01's Avatar
Camel Trophy
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,883
Likes: 951
From: Charlotte
Default

You need a better mechanic.

Do a smoke test to find the vacuum leak(s). You can perform a smoke test yourself with a length of tubing, a cigar and a match. I expect there are lots of videos on YouTube showing how to do this.

Vacuum leaks are sometimes caused by deteriorating fuel injector O-rings. There's no way your so-called "mechanic" could've seen that with a visual inspection.
 

Last edited by mln01; Jun 3, 2024 at 08:13 AM.
Reply
Old Jun 3, 2024 | 09:05 PM
  #4  
MAF Diver's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Three Wheeling
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 64
Likes: 6
Default

Thanks both! Will get a cigar and tubing and try this via YouTube. Will report back on which videos helped for anyone else looking.

Any specific areas I should be testing in the D2 in particular?

Mechanic said they don't have a smoke machine for it.

(Would I also later need to check for leaks after the exhaust manifold?)
 
Reply
Old Jun 3, 2024 | 09:54 PM
  #5  
Harvlr's Avatar
TReK
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,956
Likes: 754
From: British Columbia Canada
Default

Not likely you’ll need to check for exhaust leaks, but possible. Intake leaks are way more of a problem. An exhaust leak before the O2 sensors can cause fuelling issues, but not nearly as dramatically as intake leaks.
 
Reply
Old Jun 4, 2024 | 02:50 PM
  #6  
redrover75's Avatar
Recovery Vehicle
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 194
From: Central NJ
Default Smoke test

The harbor freight $7 pump works for the smoke test. Put the cigar in one hose and put the other in the intake, post MAF and tape it up. I used one of the protector covers that came with the mat. Just put a hole in it.
 
Reply
Old Jun 11, 2024 | 10:47 AM
  #7  
MAF Diver's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Three Wheeling
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 64
Likes: 6
Default

I wasn't able to get my DIY smoke machine to work. I bought a cigar and a siphon, but it wouldn't pump air the right way (no valve). I tried installing a valve to control the direction of flow, but no luck.

Are there other easy solutions for getting smoke there? Can I put a smoke pellet for bees on a dish, light it, and put it in the air box?

Also, when I'm driving, both ECUs are on closed loop, but at idle, the second ECU goes into open loop:


 

Last edited by MAF Diver; Jun 11, 2024 at 11:23 AM.
Reply
Old Jun 24, 2024 | 09:17 AM
  #8  
MAF Diver's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Three Wheeling
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 64
Likes: 6
Default

I made a DIY smoke machine and have smoke coming out from somewhere deep in the engine. Would you say it's a big vacuum leak?

But I can't see where exactly?


Questions:

1. What part(s) are easy to remove to get a better look?

2. Should I connect the smoke machine to somewhere else as well to check? Currently fed in from where the MAF would be.3. Is it safe to drive the car while I figure out the source/fix? Or can I damage injectors, O2s, cats, etc.?

tl;dr

- Coming from deep somewhere near the injector area? Gasket? There's also a few smaller hints here and there in my videos.

- None coming from the oil cap when removed.

- A bit coming from brake booster hose. But not much?

Birds eye view from top down:

Here you can see it also comes out a bit up top nearer to the windshield.

Air leak from booster cable:

1 of 2:
2 of 2:

Taking off the oil cap:

 

Last edited by MAF Diver; Jun 24, 2024 at 09:28 AM.
Reply
Old Jun 26, 2024 | 06:01 PM
  #9  
Extinct's Avatar
Baja
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,268
Likes: 1,809
From: Lynchburg VA
Default

Likely injector o-rings, or it could be loose lower intake manifold bolts. Tighten the bolts first and if that does not fix it remove the upper intake and pull the injectors and inspect the o-rings. While you have it off you might want to consider this: https://extinctmotorsports.com/land-...elocation-kit/
 
Reply
Old Jul 30, 2024 | 10:55 PM
  #10  
Green Bean's Avatar
3rd Gear
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
Default

Did you ever identify the location of the leak?
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 AM.